IRC log started Tue Feb 22 00:00:02 2000
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0222
<water> it's really crazy when i see names of cs researchers and i know i've seen work of theirs that i liked, but i can't place it
-:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fufie[tunnel-44-11.vpn.uib.no])
-:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-11.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes
12:10am
<water> ohi forgot to document using clones of message-expressions to simulate mi and general automation
12:20am
<water> hcf: what bugs does ast have?
<hcf> in theory, none
<water> so if i upload a page to ./html and run ast, it will properly skip the laready-processed pages
<water> (i've been running ast in ./bu)
<hcf> doesnt matter wheres its run
<hcf> thats more true now then the 1st time i said it ;)
<water> i know but i just want to make sure it won't screw up already-processed pages
<hcf> make a backup and try it
<hcf> its only a minor inconvenience if it does screw stuff up
<water> ok works fine
<hcf> whats left for issues? ;)
<water> :P
12:30am
<water> well you've heard me discuss immutability often enough
<water> as well as math crap
<hcf> is macros a longer term issue?
<water> kind of
<water> it's mostly about rewrite, which is also an arrow issue
<hcf> namespaces and representations/flattening r done, right?
<water> yeah that's a pretty clear issue
<hcf> circularity concluded?
<water> something major would have to come up to make me change my mind about those
<water> circularity in what?
<hcf> oops
<hcf> references/circularity
<water> huh?
<water> (i think that maybe a complete sentence from you would help ;)
<hcf> circularity is references ;)
<hcf> oops
<hcf> circularity in references ;)
<hcf> s/ces/ces./
<water> again, huh?
<hcf> hold, checking log
<hcf> 2000.0221:<water> but then what about circular structures of reference
<hcf> i guess little has been discussed of such
<water> wow. nice isolated statement
<water> what the hell was the context?
12:40am
<hcf> doc tagged pointers
<water> i don't think that belongs in language docs
<hcf> k
<water> if we get a compiler, we'll document it
<hcf> <water> well, the best way i can consider to work out mutability is to start with pointers to primitive datatypes and work "outwards" with more indirect references
<hcf> <water> but then what about circular structures of reference
<hcf> <eihrul> we getting to the murky area of reification of references? :)
<hcf> <water> one thing is for sure, the numbers and character primitive objects will not be mutable
<hcf> <water> er, damn it that's not quite what i'd like either
<water> ohhhh
<water> i don't see how you figured out what i was talking about from that
<water> but there most likely won't be circular references via *normal* slots
<water> well, we enforce a hierarchy for normal slots, so that shouldn't be surprising
<water> the problem is that the parent and meta slots work to make orthogonal hierarchies
<hcf> ur still working on the co-monad poop, right?
<water> yeah, i'm working on grokking
<water> sort of... i mean the idea works but integrating into slate correctly isn't simple
12:50am
<hcf> issue list so far: math, im/mutability, macros/rewrite, concurrency, co-monads
<water> yeah
<water> with a lot of cross-over between those
<hcf> missing anything?
<water> well, remember math includes text and logic
<water> you could replace math with literals
-:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi])
<hcf> as per namespaces w/ anon poop
<hcf> perhaps these may help, http://hissa.nist.gov/dads/HTML/collisionres.html esp http://hissa.nist.gov/dads/HTML/perfecthash.html
<water> well let's see... i can use rewrite for macros, (most?) literal stuff, concurrency semantics, and (co-)monadic semantics to some extent
01:00am
<water> there's also predicate classes via rewrite, which is something i've had in the back of my head for a while
<water> hashing?
<water> what does that have to do with anonymous functions?
<hcf> mapping anons to numeric keys in a namespace
<water> hm
<water> yeah and that's needed all over the place
<water> hopefully the implementation could mostly just skip over futzing with the hash table
<water> sort of a virtual hash
01:10am
<water> (fyi higher-order rewrite systems are very similar to arrow's graphs)
01:20am
<water> ok well gotta sleep before work
<water> i'll talk to you and eihrul tomorrow
<hcf> nite
-:- water [water@tnt-10-32.tscnet.net] has left #tunes []
-:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes
-:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has joined #tunes
01:40am
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has left #tunes []
-:- kev- [badfrog@155.198.196.15] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff kev-: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- water [water@tnt-10-205.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes
<water> ping
03:30am
-:- water [water@tnt-10-205.tscnet.net] has left #tunes []
-:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh5-port95.snet.net] has joined #tunes
-:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by devlin.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org])
-:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success
-:- Use /Server to connect to a server
-:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0]
-:- PING  Register first.
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about
-:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES 
-:- Your host is devlin.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) 
-:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT
-:- devlin.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv 
-:- [local users on irc(80)] 11%
-:- [global users on irc(323)] 46%
-:- [invisible users on irc(373)] 54%
-:- [ircops on irc(11)] 2%
-:- [total users on irc(696)]
-:- [unknown connections(0)]
-:- [total servers on irc(28)] (avg. 24 users per server)
-:- [total channels created(234)] (avg. 2 users per channel)
!devlin.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 115 (112 clients)
!devlin.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects!  You are on 4 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr.
-:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES
-:- Your default nick is already in use 
-:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES
-:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org "
-:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes
-:- Topic for #TUNES: TUNES, Free Reflective Computing System @ http://www.tunes.org || slate @ http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html
-:- topic set by hcf [Mon Feb 21 21:46:37 2000]
-:- [Users(#tunes:7)] 
[ TUNES     ] [ rares     ] [ smkl      ] [ Fufie     ] [ Plundis   ] 
[ abi       ] [ thomas    ] 
-:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 12.879 secs!!
-:- Mode change [-ws] for user TUNES
-:- n8j [skjdhf@1Cust169.tnt26.det3.da.uu.net] has joined #Tunes
-:- SignOff rares: #TUNES (KVirc 1.0.0 Millennium BETA 3)
-:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-313.ici.net] has joined #tunes
-:- n8j [skjdhf@1Cust169.tnt26.det3.da.uu.net] has left #Tunes []
-:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Downix[d-gnaps-313.ici.net])
-:- NetSplit: wang.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [08:41am]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [wang.openprojects.net]
-:- Netjoined: wang.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net
-:- Plundis [plundis@130.238.23.252] has joined #tunes
-:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-313.ici.net] has joined #tunes
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us913.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- smoke_ [smoke@16dyn207.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff smoke_: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world)
-:- smoke_ [smoke@16dyn207.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
<hcf> hmm
10:20am
-:- SignOff thomas: #TUNES (Ping timeout for thomas[193.217.63.152])
-:- thomas [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes
-:- smoke_ is now known as smoke
-:- iepos [root@d4.k1-2.tecinfo.com] has joined #TUNES
<hcf> hello iepos
<iepos> hi
<iepos> hcf, can you code in c?
<hcf> probly not well
<iepos> ahh... well maybe you can tell me...
<iepos> is it safe to assume that global variables are initialized to 0 always?
<hcf> in theory, the c faq would answer that
<iepos> hmmm...
<iepos> maybe i should check
<hcf> and theres always efnet/#c ;)
<iepos> ah
<hcf> see c faq, 1.30: What am I allowed to assume about the initial values of variables which are not explicitly initialized?
<iepos> ok
<iepos> good... it is initialized
<iepos> thanks for the tip...
11:50am
<hcf> np
-:- groo [ident@202.144.14.100] has joined #tunes
<groo> is anybody here into OS development?
<hcf> whatcha need?
<Downix> only indirectly
<groo> need - well to hang out really :)
<hcf> groo: k, then #tunes, #osdev, #dolphin r the places to hang
<groo> #osdev? where?
-:- SignOff iepos: #TUNES (iepos has no reason)
<hcf> /join #osdev
<groo> can anyone hold forth on schedulers?
<hcf> huh?
<groo> schedulers? you know? for process priorities?
<hcf> "hold forth on"?
<groo> yeah
<groo> just talk
<groo> i'd like to just kick some stuff arounf
<groo> around
<hcf> u gotta wait for some ppl to de-idle or show up
12:00pm
<hcf> unless Downix is up for some discussion *nudge*
<groo> hey Downix? what say? :)
<hcf> he's actually more into hardware than osdev
<hcf> abi: eddas?
<abi> somebody said eddas was the name of the chipset that Downix is working on.
<Downix> Ok, up for discussion
<Downix> was taking a shower
<hcf> groo: hello?
<Downix> so, hi groo
<hcf> abi: beep groo
<abi> i beeped groo
<groo> hi
<groo> sorry
<groo> so,you design OSes Downix?
<Downix> no, I design hardware
<groo> oh
<groo> cool
<groo> do you know what I should do to access the BIOS in protected mode?
<Downix> no
<hcf> groo: ask lar1 or air when they show up
<groo> who're they
<hcf> air does brix, lar1 does raven
12:10pm
<hcf> abi: brix?
<abi> brix is, like, at http://www.qzx.com/brix or physical. anyone not want a copy of the current source? :)
<Downix> air is an OS developer, lar1 is a super-intelligent kid
<Downix> abi:  raven?
<abi> downix: i haven't a clue
<Downix> k
-:- SignOff groo: #TUNES (Read error to groo[202.144.14.100]: Connection reset by peer)
12:20pm
-:- future [xdef@209.6.184.165] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world)
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn207.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff future: #TUNES (Read error to future[209.6.184.165]: EOF from client)
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (brb)
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn207.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world)
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn207.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (BitchX: its how steak is done)
-:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh3-port37.snet.net] has joined #tunes
-:- Kaufmann [newbie@dial721.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes
<Kaufmann> Foo
<rares> hey K
<Kaufmann> how's things?
<Kaufmann> Beta 1 out yet?
<Kaufmann> Hmmm. I tell you, Mac OS X is looking tastier by the day.
<rares> except apple will sue you if you have an orchard and trhe icons a humngous
<Kaufmann> uh? WTF is a humngous?
<rares> humongous
<rares> s/a/are
<rares> 21 inch screen looks like 320 x 240
<Kaufmann> ah
<Kaufmann> well, OSX is no Tunes, but will do for now :)
-:- mibin [mibin@an1-915.tiscalinet.it] has joined #tunes
<Kaufmann> Hmm. There's a surprising amount of Lisp stuff on Freshmeat
02:50pm
-:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp006.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes
<rares> what did you think we were using Winsdows?
<_ruiner_> windows rules
<Kaufmann> ssssure
<Fufie> kaufie: anything fun?
<_ruiner_> it does! so fast, and stable....I love it
<mibin> me too ruiner =)
<Kaufmann> Fufie, LISC sounds rather interesting... however, I'm not much in the mood for trying to get JAR packages to work on my system right now
<mibin> j/k
* _ruiner_/#tunes turns off the sarcasm switch
<Fufie> kaufie: I have used Kawa which has come somewhat further than LISC
<Fufie> kaufie: I want to include Kawa in a commercial product but the GPL stops me though
<Kaufmann> Fufie, well, just about everywhere I look there's a new implementation of Scheme on Java... which is somewhat ironic, come to think of it
<rares> Fufie
<Fufie> Scheme is easy to implement
<rares> no it doesn't
<Fufie> hi rares
<rares> you can sell Kawa
<rares> you just have to share the code with the people you give it to
<rares> GPL has nothing to do w/ commercial stuff
<Kaufmann> Fufie, you can include Kawa in a commercial product. You just can't integrate it into the codebase; you have to put the Kawa package in separately and link it to your product's codebase.
<rares> it's about proprietary shit
<Fufie> rares: GPL/The special Kawa-license stops me because I need to make changes.. and the product where I want to embed it can't be released.. out of my hands
<Kaufmann> Generally speaking, of course
<Kaufmann> ah
<Kaufmann> well
<rares> see propriuetary sucks not GPL :)
<Fufie> I never said GPL sucks.. I said it stops me in this case
<Fufie> I have discussed it at length with Per though by mail and we agree on Kawa and how it should be licensed 
<rares> no the other license stops (ain't I a stinker?)
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp163.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes
<Kaufmann> *yawn*
<eihrul> ?
<Kaufmann> never mind, Lee
<eihrul> man, it's so weird to see people using my real name...
<eihrul> i use it so infrequently :)
<Kaufmann> heh
<Kaufmann> well, I'll BRB
-:- Kaufmann is now known as Kaufmann_away
03:00pm
-:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _ruiner_[ppp006.wi.centurytel.net])
-:- SignOff rares: #TUNES (Read error to rares[wtrb-sh3-port37.snet.net]: No route to host)
<Fufie> mystic: my pine usually strips away html.. don't know how I fixed that.. but the best is to get the pathetic wankers who send mails with html to stop immeadietly
<Fufie> #wrong
-:- SignOff Kaufmann_away: #TUNES (A stranger is just an asshole you haven't met yet.)
03:20pm
<eihrul> ugh....
03:30pm
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z)
-:- water [water@tnt-10-249.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes
<eihrul> .
<water> ..
<water> wazzup?
<eihrul> migraines
<water> ouch
<water> i'll take it easy on you, then :)
<water> why are you even online?
<eihrul> aside from the fact that this computer is my life?
<mibin> heh
<water> yes
* eihrul/#tunes shrugs.
<eihrul> water: though, not a bad idea...
04:30pm
<water> i did figure out the message object format
<eihrul> do tell
<water> well, 'result' would be the *last* expression in the code, not the whole code
<water> the intermediate values would simply be other privately-accessible slots
<water> which, i note, would require a lot of ../
<water> anyway, it's a very simple fine-grained lazy data-flow model
<eihrul> ejemplo?
<water> and laziness works *well*
<water> unfortunately i don't have a good one... probably the simplest thing would be to convert existing smalltalk method code
<water> oh and i updated the primitives' syntax
<water> on the semantics page
<water> just to reflect the new changes
-:- lar1 [larman@1Cust76.tnt2.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes
04:40pm
<water> but seriously, data-flow has no serious problems handling control constructs
<water> (btw, i picked up a slew of papers yesterday with many potentially useful ideas)
<eihrul> on?
<water> categories as objects, shape theory in categories, more oo-functional stuff, ...
<water> .
<water> applied monad stuff and some related supporting papers
<water> also hyperuniverses
<eihrul> buzz-word soup
<water> and co-algebras
<water> no not buzzwords
-:- NetSplit: wang.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [04:49pm]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [wang.openprojects.net]
<eihrul> idle for a little
04:50pm
-:- Netjoined: wang.openprojects.net irc.linux.com
-:- Plundis [plundis@130.238.23.252] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Read error to lar1[1Cust76.tnt2.sfo3.da.uu.net]: Connection reset by peer)
-:- lar1 [larman@dialup-209.245.135.87.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for mibin[an1-915.tiscalinet.it])
* water/#tunes reads up on lots of cool ideas
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar1[dialup-209.245.135.87.SanJose1.Level3.net])
-:- lar1 [larman@dialup-209.245.134.232.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us204.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
<water> yo
<hcf> lo
<water> eih had migraine problems :(
<lar1> Yuck
<water> but that's okay i have plenty of papers to catch up on
<hcf> too much hard thinking?
<water> maybe
<water> i think he doesn't sleep much at all
<lar1> He is still on IRC if you need him...
<water> really?
<lar1> Yes
<water> apparently so
<water> he quit irc earlier
<lar1> Ah
<water> is he idle?
<lar1> Don't think so
06:50pm
<lar1> Hasn't said anything for a little bit but he was talking to kc5tja _alot_ just a min ago
<water> ok
<hcf> 2mins idle
<lar1> Mih, thats not too long
* water/#tunes returns to reading
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp163.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes
<water> how're you doing, eih?
-:- ult [noone@user-37kbalu.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #TUnes
07:00pm
<water> well it'll take a while to explain,but i figured out a whole lot of consequences of the slate object model
<eihrul> go for it
<water> heh. it'll take a while, and i want to get this paper-reading done first so i can compare my ideas
<water> so for now, i'll just answer questions
<water> (and oh yeah, slate's just plain weird :)
<water> but that's okay, because it still manages to make sense locally (to the user)
07:10pm
<water> q: do clones that only provide alternate locations for manipulating objects act the same as reified references?
<eihrul> well, references don't have locations
<water> they don't?
<water> where are they then?
<eihrul> currently, the ether :)
<water> bah :)
<water> so what do you think a reified reference *is*?
<eihrul> tricky
<eihrul> since a reference would be naturally an object
<eihrul> only its representation poses a problem
07:20pm
<water> um that sounds like zero info
* eihrul/#tunes shrugs.
<eihrul> its a question, not an answer
<water> suppose we said a reified reference were a clone of root whose sole slot was the object of reference
<water> would you say that that embodied the reference concept?
<water> (note: this is the reference class idea used in my old arrows squeak code)
<eihrul> yes
<water> so basically it amounts to developing a namespace system that accomodates this idea
<water> (namespaces acting as functions of other namespaces)
<water> perhaps meta-namespaces
<eihrul> though depending on the representation of a reference
<eihrul> it may have more than one slot
<water> why?
<water> hm s/meta-namespaces/referential meta-objects/
<water> uh why would it have more than one slot?
<eihrul> tagged pointers :)
<water> you mean the issue of mutability affects references in a semantics way, then
<water> (which of course makes sense, but we need precise details on such a matter)
<eihrul> and also small types :)
<water> explain "small types"
<eihrul> small integers, floating point...
<water> oh primitives
<eihrul> or references into different spaces
<water> nah i think whether something invokes primitive code should be transparent
<water> would you care to elaborate at all?
07:30pm
<eihrul> rmm, well anything i could tell you was in the rainer paper :)
<water> bleh i don't think what you're talking about applies
<eihrul> though, a reference is just a name into a particular namespace
<water> you mean a namespace accessor expression
<water> something like that?
<eihrul> yes....
<eihrul> just a rather compact form
<water> what do you mean?
<eihrul> for a tagged pointers... you for example have two fields, 30 high order bits used to designate a selector, and 2 low order bits to denote a namespace
<eihrul> for instance, 00 might refer to /numbers/integers
<water> :P
<eihrul> and the remaining field would refer to a specific object within that space :)
<water> look, i'm not talking about implementation stuff
<water> i'm just trying to make sure everything about the language is understood
<eihrul> well, i happen to blur the two, so beware
<water> i've noticed
<water> which makes all your previous answers today pretty much worthless
<water> i don't see how tagged pointers or whatever affect how many slots a reference would have
<water> unless you're suggesting a definition of references as functions over objects as namespaces
07:40pm
<water> in which case we have a "structural meta-object" or something
<water> or simply references as hof's
07:50pm
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- iok [iok@user39.anent.com] has joined #TUNES
<water> hello, iok
<iok> hello
<water> you familiar with tunes?
<iok> i stumbled on the site and found it interesting
<water> ok
<water> i assume you have a question or two
<iok> not really
<water> really? ok
<water> today's pretty quiet as for discussion
<iok> so i see...
08:00pm
<water> lately we've been working on a hll design
08:10pm
-:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fufie[tunnel-44-11.vpn.uib.no])
-:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-11.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- water [water@tnt-10-63.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes
-:- NetSplit: wang.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [08:22pm]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [wang.openprojects.net]
-:- Netjoined: wang.openprojects.net irc.linux.com
-:- Plundis [plundis@130.238.23.252] has joined #tunes
<hcf> hohum
08:30pm
<water> heh. great night for conversation
-:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- NetSplit: wang.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [08:39pm]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [wang.openprojects.net]
08:40pm
-:- Netjoined: wang.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net
-:- Plundis [plundis@130.238.23.252] has joined #tunes
-:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@209-122-203-172.s426.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes
-:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff iok: #TUNES (...)
-:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat)
-:- NetSplit: irc.linux.com split from forward.openprojects.net [09:01pm]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [irc.linux.com]
-:- Netjoined: irc.linux.com forward.openprojects.net
-:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@209-122-203-172.s426.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :))
-:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh1-port94.snet.net] has joined #tunes
<rares> this platform is wacked
<rares> needs a few turns under the zamboni
<rares> anyhoo wsup
<water> heh
<rares> someone tell me why X needs it's own authorization system isn't the base enough?
<rares> so wsup
<water> reading
-:- SignOff rares: #TUNES (Ping timeout for rares[wtrb-sh1-port94.snet.net])
09:40pm
-:- rares_ [rares@nwhn-sh14-port185.snet.net] has joined #tunes
-:- rares_ is now known as rares
-:- SignOff rares: #TUNES (KVirc 1.0.0 Millennium BETA 3)
-:- water [water@tnt-10-63.tscnet.net] has left #tunes []
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Read error to hcf[me-portland-us204.javanet.com]: Connection reset by peer)
-:- future [xdef@209.6.184.165] has joined #tunes
<air> anyone know howto send email by telneting into an smtp server?
<future> been a while since i did that
<future> HELO
<air> helo brand@qzx.com
<future> MAIL FROM: me@me.net
<air> 501 Invalid domain name
<air> oops
<future> RCPT TO: whoever@blah.net
<future> DATA
<future> type in stuff
<future> then a dot
<air> what should happen after the dot?
<future> thats the end
<future> there are better ways to do this.....
<future> like using sendmail..
<air> it is sendmail
<air> 220 borg.qzx.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.7.1/8.7.1; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:57:09 -0700
<future> no i mean like using /usr/lib/sendmail or /bin/mail or whatever
<air> my smtp server is having problems
<future> ah
<air> helo qzx.com
<air> 250 borg.qzx.com Hello p0wer [207.173.21.170], pleased to meet you
<air> mail from: brand@qzx.com
<air> rcpt to: qz@aros.net
<air> test
<air> .
<air> 250 brand@qzx.com... Sender ok
<air> 250 Recipient ok
<air> 500 Command unrecognized
<air> 500 Command unrecognized
<future> u didnt do data
<air> ugh
<future> this is pretty handy for sending quickies on like somebody's win box
<air> when i do the dot, even with DATA, it sits there for several minutes
<future> yah.. because you can do more mails.
<future> just ^D it or close the pipe
<future> it should say something like: 250 CAA20281 Message accepted for delivery  after the dot
11:20pm
-:- smoke [smoke@16dyn207.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes
<air> hmm bespin wont let me send to qz@aros.net
<air> rcpt to: qz@aros.net
<air> 550 qz@aros.net... Relaying denied
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us1037.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
11:30pm
<air> do u know where sendmail logs would be?
11:40pm
<hcf> var/log/mail probly
<hcf> var/log/mail.*
<air> Feb 23 15:29:48 borg sendmail[2404]: PAA02123: to=qz@aros.net, delay=00:27:27, xdelay=00:02:43, mailer=smtp, relay=aros.net, stat=Deferred: Name server: aros.net: host name lookup failure
<air> do u know where it gets that "aros.net" nameserver from?
<hcf> dunno
11:50pm
-:- SignOff future: #TUNES (Read error to future[209.6.184.165]: EOF from client)
<air> ok how about this problem?
<air> [root@borg log]# date -s "Wed Feb 23 00:50:53 MST 2000"
<air> date: invalid date `Wed Feb 23 00:50:53 MST 2000'
<hcf> nope
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0223
IRC log ended Wed Feb 23 00:00:02 2000