IRC log started Sun Dec 5 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1205 !services1.openprojects.net!! PANIC! buffer = :mfx QUIT :Ping timeout for mfx[dialin-111.cnnet.com] -:- pooh0 [pooh0@un-152-2.university.indiana.edu] has left #tunes [] ya morning.. *yawns* hey hi hey what's up? breakfast xmas shopping online discussing my hardware design with who? calx, on #enoch 12:40am -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (BitchX: the official sponsor of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games) -:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) -:- Will [user6860@195.25.216.113] has joined #tunes -:- Will [user6860@195.25.216.113] has left #tunes [] -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-134-219.s473.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp02.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@200.224.105.150] has joined #tunes Shalom! Okay, how do I get a bespin account? probably by talking to Tril Well, I guessed that much :) I think I finally have enough project data about MIND that I can put up a web page 09:00am that's a good start besides announcing it on Freshmeat, I guess mind? MIND Is Not Delphi c'mon, it was the best I could come up with my SDS project has yet to reach Freshmeat SDS? http://www.tunes.org/~stig/sds/ will probably have a release this december MIND will be a heavy-duty IDE-slash-project management system for Perl... designed with the programmer in mind, in the traditional Perl philosophy of making easy things easy and hard things possible Kaufmann: a delphi clone? agg oh, ok :) you scared me for a minute LOL i'd thought you'd gone pascal or something I'm nuts, but not that nuts ...or something to that effect * Kaufmann/#tunes has got to start talking in English more why? because I'm starting to develop my own peculiar dialect of English, and that is a definite sign of isolation (see _Nell_) you speak english better than 99.9% of the american population, so why bother? :) ask any sysadmin... 99.9% only looks good until you get to the remaining 0.1% well, most everyone in the tunes project is of foreign origin AFAIK :) so chances of you encountering a signifigant portion of that 0.1% is slim s/chances/chance eih: yes, and that is from everyone's point of view :) *burp* Fufie: yes, depending on your vantage point, but it still holds Al, thanks for that meaningful and insightful contribution to the discussion :) om 09:10am Anyway, now if anyone bitches about my sentences, I can just yell at them, "back off, dickhead, I'm doing groundbreaking research and I have the email address to prove it!" :) yes, and that your mind has been warped by perl (an unintended pun) unintended... yeah right :) If anyone is interested, more programmers are always welcome perl is more groundhitting than groundbreaking, though LOL Fufie at least it looks like it has hit the ground.. HARD -:- Kaufmann` [Kaufmann@200.224.105.223] has joined #tunes Back... recaps please -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Kaufmann[200.224.105.150]) -:- Kaufmann` is now known as Kaufmann What, no recaps? >>> Kaufmann [Kaufmann@200.224.105.223] requested PING 944414407 from #tunes 09:20am AUUUURGH!!!!!!! que? oh good, so I /didn't/ get disconnected yet again anyway, before I got disconnected, I was about to say that MIND was pretty much the least odd of my research interests you mean that besides dabbling with unreadable perl you also love sendmail.cf? ;) brave one :) heh no, actually I'm a card-carrying UNIX hater... but that's not the issue :) 09:30am hey, where can i get one? :) (UNIX hater card)? eihrul, I designed and printed my own (yes, I have too much time on my hands) Actually, I was considering starting a lobby for the online publication of _The UNIX Hater's Handbook_ (the whole thing, not just the 'X-Windows Disaster' chapter) 09:40am 10 KLOC lisp is a lot :( indeed it is... so? 10:00am it feels like 50 KLOC C++.. so true if only because of the hundreds of lines that contain nothing but closing braces :) so make a preprocessor that will look for a character and in its place put enough end parens to finish off everything :) end parens is not a problem.. :) by all means eh, there's tons of them :P i see lisp programs with statements that look like... foo))))))))))) :) heh four or five maybe is more common if you just had to do: foo#) or what not that would be more acceptable :) tsc... any decent editor will have automatic paren balancing anyway agg, a cobol compiler on freshmeat! at least emacs has it everyone brace for the apocalypse... be afraid be /very/ afraid -:- ChanServ has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: www.tunes.org 10:10am afraid of what? oh well.. it's nice new snow outside.. better go for a walk before it disappears.. afk bla snow is cold man, be warned you bastard... it's summer here its winter here... but we, the sin city of the nevada desert, alas, have no snow :) * Kaufmann/#tunes must leave now buh-bye all why? :) to go surfing :) surfing? gah -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES ("They say the lights are always bright on Broadway" (Genesis)) 10:20am ware do eye go to learn about godelizing shit? 10:40am -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[216-164-134-219.s473.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com]) Gakuk! gakuk 11:10am -:- yoo [ultima@user-38lc662.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us212.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- fire [no@209-68-229-29.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes hey fire hi join #reactos 11:30am close to done with my parser parsing anything fun? -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-134-219.s473.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes lengua :D -:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System || #reactos -:- fire has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System || #reactos || Lengua :D 11:40am -:- JasonFilby [jasonfilby@bfn53-01-p86.fs.saix.net] has joined #tunes * Fufie/#tunes yawns om * AlonzoTG/#tunes is meditating on what it would take to put an ameture sattelite in lunar orbit. -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-193.ici.net] has joined #tunes hey-lo yo yo yo downix fire whatup :D Nada. Doing more research into OS's cool om * AlonzoTG/#tunes is wondering how much it would cost to put an ameture sattelite into l00nar 0rbit. Actually I know a company that can do it for $150k Groovee. loonar orbit or teran orbit? either. Lunar just takes a bit more calculating 12:00pm orbital mechanics * fire/#tunes puke 12:10pm om 12:30pm -:- JasonFilby [jasonfilby@bfn53-01-p86.fs.saix.net] has left #tunes [] down: is it room for one person in such a satelite? nice way to go ex-parrot don't think so 12:40pm I was going to call it the "flying Penguin" or something equally lame. Good place to keep all your illegal P0RN and WaReZ so you could access it from any sufficiently large dish on earth. (2m+) lol would not be RT there should be a market for people who want their coffins shot into space 3 sec delay isn't too much. no, ashes cheaper to send less weight that would probably be the cheaper option but nasa is sending all kinds of junk to mars these days.. why not get burnt to ashes over mars? =\ 0 for 3 isn't good. =\ yup a whole ton of non-working junk well 0 / 4 counting the climate orbiter. but after all, americans can probably deduct it from the foreign aid budget after all, if small green man have a junkyard.. it should be booming s/man/men/ 12:50pm -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat) clementine? well, clementine is a modular OS being written by core (mailto:core@tunes.org) core? core is developing a kernel-less, component-based OS, Clementine, and the XCOM file format (http://xcom.tunes.org) I want to see Clementine hmm, xcom, that might be what I need to make my OS G0. AlonzoTG: What you need is to sit down and write something. 8) You think about all of these things you need, but in the end, all you need is to begin writing =\ Writing an OS is like writing a novel, you can plan out all of these elements for the novel, but the novel only truely lives when you sit down and write the first words well you can also buy Yoo's 199.95$ OS Programming Kit ;) and it changes for every word written, and once it is done it is not really finished and has to go through several reviews, you mean? ;) lol Fufie: Right. (I've got a novel half finished, it is nothing like I originally intended, but I'm loving it) 01:20pm AlonzoTG: If you want an OS, sit down and code the first thing. Linux started out as a memory map linux started out as a terminal emulator ;) I believe But I don't know how or what I am coding yet. =(((( That's right, Terminal Emulator and task swapper AlonzoTG: Trotski didn't know he was writing War and Peace either and finnegan's wake started out as a post-it note? ;) trotski?? my storie is only 55kilobytes. =\ Fufie: Wasn't he the guy who wrote W&P? no rofl AlonzoTG: JUST RIGHT IT trotski was a commie that was killed with an ice-axe in mexico With what tools on what computer? erm, JUST WRITE IT AlonzoTG: INSTALL LINUX AND USE JOE! or use edit on your DOS box down: tolstoj wrote w&p I think Tolstoy, you are right I don't have enuff free HD to run linux, nor do I have enough working ram to run it on. AlonzoTG: Want me to mail you a 386 a 2 meg of RAM? I have a 386 with 4 mb. =P but I don't want to wipe its drives. that's enough for Linux bummer! or install Minix minix hmmzers... minix would run nicely on that minix would be ideal I've had bad luck with minix... So I install linux; then what? I can't administer/maintain the thing. Nor are there any text editors that don't drive me batty and up the wall at the same time. You don't need to do anything sure I do, otherwise it crashes. =\ Pico and joe work fine for me I never administer my machine, it runs fine I'll have to try either of those once I get my hands on a linux system with working RAM. * yoo/#tunes smiles look, I have to run this game-demo for 30 minutes to warm it up before the ram stabalizes!!!!!! hehe =\ fuckit my next machine will have 512mb... hehe I have 64, I never max it out AlonzoTG: Write the damned thing in a notebook! * yoo/#tunes has 96mb * yoo/#tunes can't remember the last time he hit swap hehe Swap? I don t have any Swap * Fare/#Tunes is back 128 is the absolute minimum I would work with 256k is the minimum I'd work with on my Amiga 1000 Fufie, sad. 64k is the minimum I'd work with -- on my Apple ][ 2.8k is the minimum I'd work with -- on my HP28C hehe ok ok, got you all beat 01:30pm 1.1k is the minimum I'd work with, on my TI-80 calculator yoo: 128M is the minimum needed to develop anything these days Fufie: Nah Fufie: emacs only eats about 10mb and gcc eats about 5 for typ builds to develop anything, like, bad programming habits? yup fare :D I say if you can't code in 16 meg, you're a bad coder I don't spit on RAM, tho. haha well depends on the OS if you can't code in pen and paper, you're a bad coder WinNT devel does need mad ram. BrainOS 1.0 yoo: add netscape, GNOME, two dozen xterms, httpd, a running lisp system and you're beyond 64 and you haven't even started Just because the OS uses so much. Fare: Good point Fufie: which lisp is that? CMUCL? * yoo/#tunes hugs cmucl ACL hum fufie: Commercial or free? non-free! free for non-commercial use, closed source abi: ACL? cmucl really is quite good. well, ACL is Allegro Common LISP, free of charge proprietary software at http://www.franz.com but way better than Free alternatives hmm i actually prefer cmucl to acl =) cmucl is not too good on CLOS which is what I use mostly for numeric stuff cmucl is probably fine oh be that way ;) I use CLISP when I need a free alternative though :p Anyways, Alonzo, you can work with pen and paper if you have to CLISP is -so-slow-! yoo: have you done any benchmarks lately? my own =) CLISP is for my application three times slower than ACL yes yoo: How does the asm look to you? Downix: Like a bunch of ROM Microcrap installed a bunch of shit on my 'doze 3.11 box that had it hitting swap bigtime... I located it and removed it and now I am sitting at 62% with netscape loaded... Downix: The real code would be a lot cleaner I would hope netscape 2.0 i hope 4.08 yoo: Well, noone would know, noone has a copy of it on a 386 with 4mb of ram?? Downix: define 'noone' P100 with 32 megs/20 meg swap... the swap manager on my machine wants to put a 200 mb swapfile on my disk! =P noone as in not many people, or noone as in due to some corporate fuck up its gone? oh yoo: Escom lost it's copies of the ROM your bullshitting me that's fucked =) Not at all notice that "AmigaOS 3.5" has no ROM upgrade? 01:40pm they have Workbench, no ROM They contracted H&P to decompile the ROM and rebuild it to PowerPC w/o any of the special chips * yoo/#tunes smiles That's nice an ironic. Why decompile the rom though? I'd assume they at least had extensive technical documentation Hehe, everybody and their brother has the tech docs Hell, I do * Downix/#tunes waves his hands over his bookshelf The documents lack certain details * yoo/#tunes nods silly Indeed Anyways big OOPSY wouldn't you agree? the only reason they have Workbench is because one guy printed up the source Ahh well, Escom is an idiot 01:50pm Anyways, Alonzo, you working on that OS? * AlonzoTG/#tunes is working on a bowl of popcorn. grr * Downix/#tunes steals your popcorn, write an OS first! 8) GET VC I could get it easier if I had an OS to show them. 8) om hmm... /me checks to see how much it would take to boot something ond make the screen look prety. ok ooops, that's windows 98 =P hehe Hmm It'd hafto be in assembly... I could get you an UGLY realmode hack in a week or so, that is generating the file formats manually... in MIPS ASM? x86 =\ I don't know enuff mips. unlesss I had a CD burner and was writing for my PSX Well, x86 would be a begining * yoo/#tunes still doesn't understand how you could lose the source code i mean...that is just beyond stupid? what source code? AmigaOS ROM anybody who looses more than 10,000 lines of source should be drawn and quartered. AlonzoTG: AmigaOS's yoo: idiocy is a good way to put it dear god! AlonzoTG: how about 194 lines? Downix: But...come on...SOURCE CODE to a MAJOR PRODUCT! That is the worst thing to happen since the hindenburg disaster. yoo: It wasn't major to Escom, they wanted Commodore's PC division, WHICH THEY STILL HAVE! hehe heck if it was Open Source everybod would have the coppy... I know 02:00pm OMG, Someone is playing Milli Vanilli on the radio! om? why should that be such a shock? Because I have not heard them on the radio since their scandal * AlonzoTG/#tunes looks at what's left of his year-old prototyping effort... heard 'them'? ;) Fufie: hehe 02:10pm heh later ;/quit -:- SignOff yoo: #TUNES (Leaving) Anyways =\ * AlonzoTG/#tunes looks some more at his previous effort... not much is left after all those ram fault driven HD errors... =\ AlonzoTG: what was it? oh man Nothing, I just had a bunch of nearly empty files where I was trying to lay out all my function definitions. * Downix/#tunes looks at his modem for the Amiga he built still works geeeeepers! Good Werk! Okay here is what I need: What you need: Pen and Paper I need some VGA and PC hardware libraries off the net, know any places I can get them? HDL? or what? somebody said or was fire == lar1 ? IRQ handling tables... ok DMA stuff... Uh.... al: there was a finnish site for that.. I think it is mentioned in the comp.os.ms-dos.programmer faq or sth oulu.fi maybe * Downix/#tunes is thinking "considering I have no IRQ's in my system and my DMA system is very different and no VGA..... How no IRQs? * AlonzoTG/#tunes is writing for PC. IRQ's are direct CPU calls by hardware since all hardware has it's own processor, no CPU calls are necessary yep, How do you get arround them? Polling is SLO!!! okay... hmmzers. =) Saves a lot of work, huh? Anyways 02:20pm what kind of demo do you want to have Al? fuck, I had started on the prototype over a year ago and hoped to get it done within 4 months. =\ Just a basic "I'm al's OS, this is wut I do" AlonzoTG: uh huh om Try C instead of asm? * AlonzoTG/#tunes has BILLIONS of books on low level PC programming from many many yarn ago... * AlonzoTG/#tunes does not know how to code low-level shit in C. C sucks. Well, asm isn't portable that's my worry Since my system isn't an x86 You won't want to port this demo! 90% of what keept me from finishing the prototype the first time around is that I was trying to make it in C and portable!!! =P Ok Well, what will the demo do, exactly? boot, load programs... give basic cli, hopefully a primative GUI... How long till it will work? don't have a clue... ok When will you start? 02:30pm when you tell me me to "shut up and do it!!!!" Well, SHUT UP AND DO IT! om -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.103.140] has joined #tunes * Downix/#tunes blinks, did that work? * Downix/#tunes faints 02:40pm * Fufie/#tunes yawns.. again main() { sleep(10*60); printf("yawn\n"); fork(); main(); } nasty program :p heh, it will take up slowly all my resources actually the main inside it is another dream level -:- VirtuaSpy [blunt@139.102.111.228] has joined #tunes -:- VirtuaSpy [blunt@139.102.111.228] has left #tunes [] ok lemme run it 03:00pm -:- SignOff fire: #TUNES (Leaving) heh hmm hmm, is this the h** syndrome hrm? ehehehehe 03:10pm