IRC log started Sat Oct  9 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1009
-:- Panzee [matth@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #tunes
-:- Panzee [matth@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has left #tunes []
-:- BlackPhoenix [black-phoe@adm.univd.kharkov.ua] has joined #tunes
-:- BlackPhoenix [black-phoe@adm.univd.kharkov.ua] has left #tunes []
-:- SignOff td: #TUNES (td has no reason)
-:- SignOff Syntax: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Syntax[02-072.006.popsite.net])
-:- Syntax [dma@01-046.006.popsite.net] has joined #Tunes
-:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial858.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes
<Kaufmann> Wow! Mozilla M10 is actually downloading fast
<Kaufmann> about 4.5 K/sec in my lousy 45333 bps connection
06:20am
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES ("Jesus would make a good main character for a Seinfeld spinoff" - Amber)
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us214.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- water [water@tnt-10-169.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes
<water> hey all
<hcf> hi water
<water> i actually was going to have a really good discussion last night with tril, but was cut off way too many times
09:00am
-:- NetSplit: irc.linux.com split from devlin.openprojects.net [09:05am]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [irc.linux.com]
-:- Netjoined: irc.linux.com devlin.openprojects.net
-:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #Tunes
-:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #Tunes
-:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes
-:- Syntax [dma@01-046.006.popsite.net] has joined #Tunes
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us214.javanet.com] has joined #Tunes
-:- water [water@tnt-10-169.tscnet.net] has joined #Tunes
-:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+o Tril] by asimov.openprojects.net
-:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Ping timeout for water[tnt-10-169.tscnet.net])
-:- water [water@tnt-10-204.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes
<water> :P
<water> see what i mean?
09:10am
<hcf> yep
<hcf> perhaps u could use icq instead
-:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Ping timeout for water[tnt-10-204.tscnet.net])
<hcf> and make .icq log files ;)
-:- NetSplit: varley.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [09:16am]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [varley.openprojects.net]
-:- NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [09:16am]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net]
-:- Netjoined: sterling.openprojects.net irc.linux.com
-:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #Tunes
-:- Syntax [dma@01-046.006.popsite.net] has joined #Tunes
-:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+o Tril] by sterling.openprojects.net
-:- Netjoined: varley.openprojects.net irc.linux.com
-:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #Tunes
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us214.javanet.com] has joined #Tunes
09:20am
-:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial883.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes
<hcf> hi Kaufmann
<Kaufmann> Hey
<Kaufmann> What's up?
<hcf> little
<Kaufmann> Y'know, when I come here I usually want to get some ideas for alisp (my lisp system)... but I usually get involved in some other discussion and completely forget about it.
<hcf> start an alisp thread on the mlist
<hcf> which needs reviving
<Kaufmann> I think I got unsubscribed from it somehow... or perhaps it's just really really dead :)
<hcf> its not alive
<Kaufmann> lemme check
<hcf> it need YOU
<hcf> s/need/needs/
<hcf> be all that u can be
<hcf> err, thats no right ;)
<hcf> s/no/not
<Kaufmann> Aiirgh... I really should start organizing my mailbox
<Kaufmann> Feeling a bit lysdixec today, eh?
<hcf> ur agent should org it for u
09:30am
<Kaufmann> I know... I just can't bring myself to even lay out an organization scheme
<hcf> typing errors, i only get lysdixec w/ numbers
<Kaufmann> Hey, whaddayaknow! Moz M10 has already finished dl'ing!
<hcf> the logs say uv never mentioned ur alisp here b4 today
<Kaufmann> not by that name
<hcf> what was it fka?
<Kaufmann> fka?
<abi> fka is formerly known as
<Kaufmann> abi, fka?
<abi> i heard fka was formerly known as
<Kaufmann> oic
<Kaufmann> no, I was already planning to call it alisp... I just never had an opportunity to use the term here
<Kaufmann> Anyway, I want to make it like the ultimate lisp system... very small and well-defined semantic core like Scheme's, but completely reflexive. Heavily based on syntax trees and pattern-matching.
<Kaufmann> And incentivating (?) functional programming, with features like function polymorphism, lazy evaluation...
09:40am
-:- Liberty [kiss@modemh48.netone.com.tr] has joined #Tunes
<Kaufmann> Hi
<Kaufmann> abi, .tr?
<abi> kaufmann: wish i knew
<Kaufmann> where is .tr?
<hcf> hold
<hcf> turnkey ;)
<hcf> turkey
<Kaufmann> LOL
-:- SignOff Liberty: #TUNES (Leaving)
<Kaufmann> abi, .tr is Turkey
<Kaufmann> Well, let's see if I can run a bloated MacOS, an IRC client, Netscape 4.7 /and/ Mozilla M10 at the same time without crashing, shall we?
-:- Syntax [dma@01-046.006.popsite.net] has left #Tunes []
<Kaufmann> So far so good... pretty opening splash
<Kaufmann> Loading Slashdot...
<hcf> abi: slash
<abi> SDHLs 09:01-091099: Notes Toward a Postcyberpunk Manifesto | Linux Art and Lotsa Linux Hype | Mozilla M10 Released | Recommended Hardware for Streaming MP3 Radio Stations? | German "Linux Hotel" has Tux in Every Bed | LWN's Penguin Gallery | David Huffman is Dead | ESR Responds to Nikolai Bezroukov | VA Linux Files For IPO | Managing Geeks.
<Kaufmann> kewl!
<Kaufmann> nice feature
<Kaufmann> Well, it's loaded Slashdot nicely
<Kaufmann> Now, the Mac crash test... aka, Preferences setting!
<Kaufmann> WHAM! It's caused apprunner to quit
<Kaufmann> Well, at least it didn't crash my box like every release since M6 has
09:50am
-:- Syntax [dma@01-046.006.popsite.net] has joined #Tunes
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Kaufmann[dial883.infolink.com.br])
-:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial472.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes
<Kaufmann> hcf, I did what you said... and posted a message ("alisp") to tunes@tunes.org
<Kaufmann> Just hope Faré won't get pissed off at me
<hcf> why would he be?
<hcf> "design and implementation and design", excessive 'design's, u fail ;)
<Kaufmann> Because in theory, tunes@ (as well as #tunes) should be dedicated to discussions pertaining specifically to the Tunes project
<Kaufmann> AAAAAIRGH!!!!!
* Kaufmann/#tunes is a dumb-ass
<hcf> its ok
<hcf> #tunes and @tunes r allowed to have "off topic" discussions
<hcf> just not #modtunes
<Kaufmann> Of course, in theory, theory and practice are the same. However, in practice...
<Kaufmann> Hrrrm. Message hasn't arrived in my mailbox yet
<Kaufmann> Then again, you're getting your mail from a bespin account, right?
<hcf> correct
<hcf> how often do u pop ur tunes mail?
<Kaufmann> ?
<hcf> or is it just forward'd
<hcf> nm
<hcf> duh
<hcf> its direct, i forget sometimes how "normal" ppl do things
10:50am
<Kaufmann> lol
<Kaufmann> I like being normal, thank you very much :)
<Kaufmann> I suppose /you/ get your mail by telnet'ing to the POP3 port
<hcf> isnt there already a lisp called, alisp?
<Kaufmann> I don't think so
<Kaufmann> I definitely /hope/ not!
<hcf> theres AutoLisp, which goes by alisp for short
<Kaufmann> that's the scripting language for AutoCAD, right?
<hcf> seemingly
<hcf> why not klisp?
<Kaufmann> but mine is just alisp (all low), and it doesn't stand for anything
<Kaufmann> Or it stands for anything you want it to stand for... A LISP, Another LISP, Ambiguous LISP... Additional Lots of Infuriating, Spurious Parentheses
<Kaufmann> Nah, I don't have an ego
<Kaufmann> :)
<Kaufmann> For a while, I considered PLIS (Puny/Powerful/Pointless Lisp Interpretation System)
<Kaufmann> Yeah, apparently the only ALISP around is AutoLISP
<hcf> P also = Perfect
11:00am
<hcf> yalisp isnt taken
<Kaufmann> According to Google, anyway
<hcf> probly done by millions of students tho
<Kaufmann> LOL, yalisp is funny
<Kaufmann> but alisp is also good to pronounce... you can just say it like "Alice", or make the distinction, as in "a lisp"
<Kaufmann> So do you have any ideas for alisp?
<hcf> u could do, X = <someletter>(isol|ilos) as X Isnt (Scheme|Lisp) or (Lisp|Scheme)
<hcf> i'd rather play w/ names ;)
<Kaufmann> The dominating concept of alisp is that everything is modelled by dynamic interactions between the parse tree and the symbol table
<hcf> why didnt u put such in ur mlist msg?
<Kaufmann> because I find this kind of thing difficult to express
11:10am
<Kaufmann> So any given form will be evaluated by turning it into a tree labeled by symbols, then using the Natural Language databases to translate the symbols into the symbol table indexes... and then start the evaluation process per se, using pattern-matching to match function lambda-lists, etc.
<Kaufmann> so that, for instance, if I say (define (! 1) (lambda (n) 1)) (define (! n) (lambda (n) (* n (! (- n 1)))))
<Kaufmann> I have two definitions of ! (a factorial function). For any value of x except 1, (! x) will match only the second definition; (! 1), however, will match both definitions, but since the first is more specific ("matches better"), it'll get picked.
<smkl> like in haskell and SML?
<Kaufmann> Of course, there'll be implicit memoization
11:20am
<Kaufmann> Haskell has implicit memoization?
<Kaufmann> I didn't know that
<smkl> no, that was to the sentence before that .. and implicit memoization is implementation detail in a lang like haskell
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Kaufmann[dial472.infolink.com.br])
-:- SignOff Syntax: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Syntax[01-046.006.popsite.net])
11:30am
-:- Syntax [dma@208.48.101.31] has joined #Tunes
-:- Syntax [dma@208.48.101.31] has left #Tunes []
-:- Syntax [dma@208.48.101.31] has joined #Tunes
-:- Syntax [dma@208.48.101.31] has left #Tunes []
-:- Syntax [dma@208.48.101.31] has joined #Tunes
-:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial472.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES ("Jesus would make a good main character for a Seinfeld spinoff" - Amber)
-:- IMPO [ihatebob@p09-32.hartford.dialin.ntplx.com] has joined #tunes
-:- fdgdhfuli [fdkygh@user-2ivf756.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes
<IMPO> :D
<fdgdhfuli> guys can i help you make your operating system
<fdgdhfuli> i know vb 4 and 5
<IMPO> lol
-:- fdgdhfuli is now known as kaiden
<kaiden> i have 50 shells
<kaiden> they are all windows nt
<hcf> lucky u
<kaiden> do you want me to hack you with one
-:- SignOff kaiden: #TUNES (PING TIMEOUT)
-:- hcf_ [nef@me-portland-us909.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Read error to hcf[me-portland-us214.javanet.com]: Connection reset by peer)
-:- hcf_ is now known as hcf
12:50pm
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp37.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes
-:- Lee [lazy_e@ppp-207-193-28-44.snantx.swbell.net] has joined #tunes
<Lee> hello
<Lee> 9Im Pimpin Nation Wide
<smkl> hi Lee
<Lee> hello
<Lee> whats your name
<smkl> umm
<Lee> its a jokke
<Lee> i mean joke
<Lee> dont worry about it
<eihrul> #tunes does not have a sense of humor
<Lee> oh im sorry
<IMPO> that's ok
<IMPO> neither does lee
<Lee> he is right
<Lee> i am a loser
<Lee> who cant even get a girlfreind
<Lee> i should just leave
* Lee/#tunes waves goodbye
-:- Lee [lazy_e@ppp-207-193-28-44.snantx.swbell.net] has left #tunes []
01:10pm
-:- Lee [lazy_e@ppp-207-193-28-44.snantx.swbell.net] has joined #tunes
<Lee> i have no place better to go
<hcf> theres a place in hell for u
<eihrul> ironically enough
<Lee> ah
<Lee> that really hurts
01:20pm
-:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp37.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes
<eihrul> ++
<eihrul> -++
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp37.lvdi.net] has left #tunes []
01:50pm
<Lee> wtf
<Lee> she comes in and then leaves
<Lee> thats odd
<IMPO> how do you know it's a girl
02:00pm
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
<Lee> ron said these were all girls
<Lee> so i figured eihrul was girl
<IMPO> he said that to trick you into coming on this network you idiot
<Lee> oh
<Lee> oh well see you later then
-:- SignOff Lee: #TUNES (Leaving)
02:10pm
-:- SignOff IMPO: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- binEng [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes
-:- IMPO [ihatebob@p09-32.hartford.dialin.ntplx.com] has joined #tunes
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp37.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes
<IMPO> hi
<eihrul> lo
03:30pm
-:- SignOff IMPO: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- IMPO [ihatebob@p09-32.hartford.dialin.ntplx.com] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.245.142.133.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes
-:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.245.142.133.SanJose1.Level3.net] has left #tunes []
-:- IMPO has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Reflective Computing System - http://www.tunes.org/
-:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES ( <k!14>)
* Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 18 hrs 23 min 11 secs
* Tril/#TUNES is away: (afk) [BX-MsgLog Off]
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us833.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.244.106.225.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes
-:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.244.106.225.SanJose1.Level3.net] has left #tunes []
* hcf/#tunes is away: (afk)
-:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial854.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes
<Kaufmann> Shalom!
-:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.244.106.225.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes
<lar1> Hey
<lar1> I had a thought
<Kaufmann> Amazing!
* Kaufmann/#tunes takes pictures
<lar1> Can I say it without getting flamed?
<Kaufmann> :)
<IMPO> too late
<Kaufmann> J/K, lar1
-:- witten [witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-196-179.mminternet.com] has joined #tunes
06:10pm
<lar1> Would it work to implement messaging the way Xforms does?  A program sets its stuff and the waits for a message?
<witten> what language is tunes written in?
<Kaufmann> witten, mu
<witten> never heard of it. hm.
<Kaufmann> that's not a language.
-:- SignOff IMPO: #TUNES (Read error to IMPO[p09-32.hartford.dialin.ntplx.com]: Connection reset by peer)
<Kaufmann> mu is a Zen word that can be interpreted as 'un-asking' the question.
-:- IMPO [ihatebob@p09-31.hartford.dialin.ntplx.com] has joined #tunes
<witten> oh.
<witten> thanks.
<Kaufmann> Tunes is a complete computer system, not just one tool
<IMPO> i better go see what i missed
<witten> i realize that
<Kaufmann> Besides, in Tunes, there is no distinction between the language and the rest of the system
<witten> okay
<witten> so what languages will it be written in?
<IMPO> the language is the system
<IMPO> so the system is the language
<witten> okay
<Kaufmann> How Zen :)
<witten> it does make sense, regardless
<lar1> Hcf you there?
<witten> it's just the bootstrapping part of things that's difficult, i imagine
06:20pm
<Kaufmann> Not really... in theory, you can simply start out from, say, a Scheme compiler
<IMPO> well, lots of imagination is the key to its success
<Kaufmann> from an interactive Scheme compiler written in Scheme
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp37.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes
<Kaufmann> And incrementally add reflective features (in other words, a MOP) while at the same time adding to the compiler behavior that is usually attributed to the OS
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving)
<eihrul> isn't fare trying to do that as well?
<IMPO> i suppose it would be a good idea if i knew any scheme
<IMPO> ok i will be back later
<IMPO> i must go for my rousing ad&d weekly game
-:- IMPO is now known as IMPO-away
<eihrul> kauf: eh?
<witten> don't you have to start with assembly?
<witten> or at least, use it in large amounts at some point?
<Kaufmann> witten, not in large amounts
<witten> hm ok
<eihrul> kauf: yes/no?
<Kaufmann> of course, the compiler outputs assembly code
<Kaufmann> eihrul, what?
<eihrul> isn't fare trying to do much the same thing as you?
<witten> what compiler? the interactive scheme compiler?
<IMPO-away> almost all compilers
<Kaufmann> eihrul, you caught only half of the conversation... I was just describing one possible way to implement Tunes
<IMPO-away> you can set the compile-time flag to write the machine code to a file
<IMPO-away> i know GAS and NASM do
<IMPO-away> ok now i must really go
<IMPO-away> er
<Kaufmann> witten, yeah
<IMPO-away> gcc
<IMPO-away> not gas
06:30pm
<Kaufmann> ...
<IMPO-away> MY CAR WILL NOT START
<IMPO-away> CHEVROLET WILL HEAR OF THIS
<IMPO-away> BY GOD THEY WILL
<IMPO-away> anyways
<IMPO-away> i guess that is that
-:- IMPO-away is now known as IMPO
<Kaufmann> blow up the damn factory
<IMPO> the thing was just in the shop
<Kaufmann> Don't you jt fucking hate cars?
<IMPO> yes
<IMPO> i didn't bother getting my license when i was sixteen
<IMPO> since i had no use for one
<IMPO> and it was too much money to bother with
<Kaufmann> I can honestly say that I don't intend to get a car. I don't have any problem with public transportation.
<IMPO> i miss the old days
<IMPO> when i could just get a ride off other people
<IMPO> commuting to the university via other people just doesn't cut it though
<eihrul> kauf: who needs to go outside anyway?
<Kaufmann> eihrul, LOL
<eihrul> can't take the wall socket with you....
<Kaufmann> AirPort everywhere, 12-hour batteries
<IMPO> i love airplanes
-:- Kaufmann is now known as KaufmannBRB
06:40pm
<KaufmannBRB> LOL
-:- witten [witten@adsl-gte-la-216-86-196-179.mminternet.com] has left #tunes []
06:50pm
-:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- SignOff KaufmannBRB: #TUNES (Ping timeout for KaufmannBRB[dial854.infolink.com.br])
-:- SignOff Syntax: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Syntax[208.48.101.31])
-:- Syntax [dma@05-055.006.popsite.net] has joined #Tunes
<IMPO> seen fire
<hcf> abi: seen fire
<abi> fire was last seen on IRC 1 days, 13 hours, 28 minutes and 26 seconds ago, saying: :( [Fri Oct  8 06:53:18 1999]
-:- td [x@1Cust115.tnt3.wilmington.nc.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes
08:30pm
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp37.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp37.lvdi.net] has left #tunes []
-:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp37.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes
<Tril> abi: seen water
<abi> water was last seen on IRC 11 hours, 35 minutes and 22 seconds ago, saying: see what i mean? [Sat Oct  9 09:08:15 1999]
<Tril> abi: seen fare
<abi> fare was last seen on IRC 1 days, 4 hours, 30 minutes and 40 seconds ago, saying: bye! [Fri Oct  8 16:12:59 1999]
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
08:50pm
-:- Zhivago [brian@th.merddin.com.au] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff Zhivago: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- Yep| [user3398@nwhn-sh1-port45.snet.net] has joined #tunes
-:- Yep| [user3398@nwhn-sh1-port45.snet.net] has left #tunes []
-:- SignOff IMPO: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes
<air> ugh 10 hours of halflife
11:50pm
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.1010
IRC log ended Sun Oct 10 00:00:00 1999