IRC log started Fri Oct 1 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1001 -:- SignOff Zhivago: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Zhivago[th.merddin.com.au]) -:- Zhivago [brian@th.merddin.com.au] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp36.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- air has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System || http://www.aftersleeves.org/apostle/ || http://www.netpedia.net/sites.html || BRiX IS WORKING!!! -:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) -:- _ruiner_ [nate@ppp283.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Leaving) !spice:*! I reckon we need a k-line for that guy !spice:*! he annoys me EVERY day !spice:*! die uzi die !Bhaal:*! There was one a lil while back, last friday I think... !Bhaal:*! a g-line anyway... !netgod:*! that was my doing !netgod:*! die uzi die :) -:- SignOff td: #TUNES (td has no reason) !Bhaal:*! This is a different 'uzi' then? -:- water [water@tnt-9-109.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-72.ici.net] has joined #tunes hey downix hey what's new for you? nada, waiting for a cab so I can go to work k 04:40am -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES ([BX] I see your BitchX is as big as mine!) -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-183.ici.net] has joined #tunes wb hey * water/#tunes is looking at the Entropy Systems web site -:- salma19 [user9400@ta57.diak.fi] has joined #Tunes -:- salma19 [user9400@ta57.diak.fi] has left #Tunes [] when in college, i was working on my mech/aero eng degree cool i'm wondering if this Amin cycle could be applied to turbines [!] 06:30am how should I know? a/s/l? 23/male/new england ah. programmer, too do you know what this Amin cycle does / why it's so damned important? not a clue basically, it takes any gas as an input and converts some of its entropy into mechanical work it only outputs colder gas * Downix/#tunes shrugs fuel = atmospheric heat! I can barely understand piston engines, turbines confuse me it works at any temperature and pressure, and doesn't use chemical combustion ok get it? afraid not well, do you understand why it's so significant an idea? I do, yes imagine an aircraft driven by a turbine based on that principle cheap to fly And impossible to get into production, the oil and grain companies would block it's production unfortunately, i can't see that their designs would apply well to propeller-driven aircraft, engineering-wise * Downix/#tunes likes propellers too bad the art of designing them is lost for the most part well, that remains to be seen just yet. the company has received a great deal of publicity it now apparently has international backers cool * Downix/#tunes one time got bored enough to engineer a fusion engine for space propultion i'm really strongly considering pulling out a lot of manuals and working on a patentable design hehe hehe try doing design _constructively_: pick up as many tech references as you can, cheaply, and do the research. it's very enlightening i came up with a half-baked design for an autogyro rotor control system that way i was f** hard s/f**/f***ing hehe but the design was very implementable 06:40am all you'd have to do for a fusion reactor is look into the right journals * Downix/#tunes nods I did but the thing is, it wasn't a reactor it was a propultion unit well, sure but the principles relate very closely yup unfortunately, i'd bet that you had no engineering data to work with yup sux only what I had in my head in theory tho, it would work yeah, that sounds like the stuff i tried to do in high school * Downix/#tunes nods damn it, i _must_ work on this turbine design, but arrow is more important someday... * Downix/#tunes sticks to computers, he understands them better someday i will have my cross-disciplinary idea company (and then i will change the world, bwa hahaha aa !!! :) it really sux that no cs / math researchers can help me maybe i should bug the ontology folks or some logical philosophers or something hold on sorry, got to go brb 06:50am -:- water [water@tnt-9-109.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (BitchX: made with real honey.) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us732.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us732.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by adams.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Use /Server to connect to a server -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Invalid argument -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Your nick [TUNES] is owned by tunes@bespin.dhs.org -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES_ (from lewis.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is lewis.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from lewis.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from lewis.openprojects.net) -:- lewis.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(4)] 1% -:- [global users on irc(200)] 43% -:- [invisible users on irc(266)] 57% -:- [ircops on irc(14)] 3% -:- [total users on irc(466)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(31)] (avg. 15 users per server) -:- [total channels created(140)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !lewis.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 8 (7 clients) !lewis.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 4 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES_ -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES_ -:- TUNES_ [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: Free Reflective Computing System || http://www.aftersleeves.org/apostle/ || http://www.netpedia.net/sites.html || BRiX IS WORKING!!! -:- topic set by air [Fri Oct 1 00:31:22 1999] -:- [Users(#Tunes:5)] [ TUNES_ ] [ hcf ] [ Zhivago ] [@Tril ] [ TUNES ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 9.356 secs!! [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net break: devlin.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) -:- NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from devlin.openprojects.net [10:26am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net] [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com sterling.openprojects.net -:- Netjoined: sterling.openprojects.net devlin.openprojects.net -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #Tunes -:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+o Tril] by sterling.openprojects.net [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from sterling.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net king.openprojects.net [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from king.openprojects.net. 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[openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net varley.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- _ruiner_ [nate@ppp125.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all. I imagine we are still having problems from that backhoe accident in Ohio. Please be patient. :) [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net junction: varley.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from tolkien.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- SignOff Zhivago: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _ruiner_[ppp125.wi.centurytel.net]) -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-117.ici.net] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed xtc (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- Downix is now known as Dx_AWAY -:- water [water@tnt-10-42.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed larne (GHOST command used by is) -:- water [water@tnt-10-42.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net break: varley.openprojects.net fontana.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net junction: tolkien.openprojects.net fontana.openprojects.net [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from fontana.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net fontana.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed is (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed is (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- Dx_AWAY is now known as Downix [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com lucas.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed al-Kader (GHOST command used by al-Kader_) [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net lucas.openprojects.net [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lucas.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net lucas.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- fare is now known as Fare -:- eihrul [eihrul@usr5-ppp12.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com huxley.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from huxley.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- pyro [tcn@cci-209150250119.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes hey 01:40pm [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from huxley.openprojects.net. -:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (pyro has no reason) [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES ([BX] Showering in your clothes shows you're crazy. Showering nude shows your nuts.) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Mongoose (GHOST command used by MrFurious) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Mike_W (GHOST command used by Mike_W1) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Mike_W (GHOST command used by Mike_W1) -:- eihrul [eihrul@usr5-ppp12.lvdi.net] has left #tunes [] -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed e-t (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us935.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- lar1 [lar1@63.27.230.11] has joined #tunes Hey hey What was fixed in BRiX? -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) 04:20pm u expect me to remember that? :) Heh, well the topic says BRiX IS WORKING!!! so I figured somone here would know. oh i remember, after thd_crt popped the user stack values it replaced the user esp with the physical address instead of virutal so once it returned to the user code it would page fault Uh huh as soon as it accessed the stack Ok i just gotta fix a bug in my screen.print() code cuz its printing an extra space after the string andthen i'll add the keyboard methods so it will accept user input air: Are you Brand? no, im jon doe Doh! Stop changing yer nick! :) :) elgato changed his too Whats elgato now? fire our choice of nicks kinda upset water tho :) You should be wind, and I'll change to earth :) wind is dumb Heh Is that why you changed? Think... Earth, wind, fire and water! well i changed cuz elgato did, he was talking to water so i picked air cuz it was funny at the time but air is kewl and someone was bitching about how confusing it is to have a liar and lar1 in here so i registered air You should stick with _QZ, that was cool Is there a way to have more then 6 consoles? ya Ya, there is a way to have more consoles? Or ya yer gonna use _QZ? 04:30pm more than 6 How? dunno :) Is there a program to automake makefiles for me? automake? autoconf? ok, thanks There is no make file for automake... Doh! Whats a configure.in? 04:40pm brb Err, bbl -:- lar1 [lar1@63.27.230.11] has left #tunes [] 04:50pm -:- eihrul [eihrul@usr5-ppp12.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- water [water@tnt-9-25.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com lu.openprojects.net [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from lu.openprojects.net. anyone here? [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net lu.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- lar1 [lar1@63.27.230.11] has joined #tunes Back wb How do I pass int argc, char *argv[] from main to a function properly? I was doing FunctionName(argc, argv) but then when I use argv[1] is segfaulte fl_initialize(&argc, argv, "Bochs Frontend", 0, 0); btw all, i have a sin to confess water: if u came out we dont wanna know i... well... i programmed in visual basic today Ahh! :( Thats a cardnal sin! i was ordered to by some high-ranking officers because their M$-based info-system needed some coherence 05:20pm and the problem was too complex for their usual gurus water: that is even worse then coming out water: if it makes you feel cleaner, my CS AP class is making me use "True BASIC" Heh, well then I guess forgiveness can be found... This time ;> although i keep ignorant of such vile concepts, i managed to impress them by coding in an hour what they couldn't do in weeks [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net crichton.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Linus (This nick is reserved by another user) ah... that makes me feel much better [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com crichton.openprojects.net [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from crichton.openprojects.net. i will have to atone by contributing some smalltalk code to the squeak project or something [openprojects]!lewis.openprojects.net crichton.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. it's not really a true basic... and it's not free (you have maximum line lengths to programs) maximum line lengths? it's proprietary and from the stone age, obviously water: perhaps you can help me with my simple C question since yer all in that atoning mood? :) is that no what computer sicence classes supposed to teach though? outdated and useless things? :) er rather are supposed to lar1: sorry, c is a minor sin for me lar1: a necessary evil to be avoided s/no/not as well eihrul: that's exactly what they're for water: Hmmm, fine, fine :) water: and to that end i'm still pondering whether it's worth pursuing a computer science degree -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us944.javanet.com] has joined #tunes eihrul: well, don't listen to me. i dropped out by spending too much time in computer labs and the library hey hcf hi water water: what did they actually teach? what courses? Hey hcf eihrul: i never took cs courses. i was an aero/mech engineering major (although my real interest was mathematics) eihrul: they had the usual curricula, though eihrul: most of my friends were cs majors, and we coded together often hcf: Perhaps you could answer my very simple C question? been thinking of looking into mathematics or physics... lar1: perhaps not hcf: Mmmm, ok... uhh, thanks :) hcf: s/thanks/thanks anyway :) eihrul: well, i've studied most everything related to math/sci majors 05:30pm I'll be back somtime later.... I'm gonna go over to efnet to see if I can't get my C stuff fixed one server at a time? dude.. check #linpeople -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (changing servers) water: hrmm... the course descriptions for the computer science courses are indeed very simplistic a semester long class of database programming is quite dry and uninformative, i've heard and statistics is just rote learning and mathematics, sugared with analysis but how else will a company know that you're a good programmer unless you get the degree? :) agg... the last thing i want is to be stuck in a cubicle programming C for the next 20 years after college hehe... no, you'll be programming java :P :) precisely why it pays to be a professional bum -:- lar1 [lar1@63.27.230.11] has joined #tunes wb Hmph... I am not running an Ident server so I can't get to an efnet server! no employment -> no employer -> no java lar1: irc.ais.net irc.cs.cmu.edu as well tnx mucho, eihrul eihrul: You wouldn't answer my real quick questino would you? which is? 05:40pm eihrul: In c,what is the proper way to send int argc, char *argv[] to a function? eihrul: I was using FunctionName(argc, argv) but that didn't work however it is specified in the prototype The but it won't compile if I do FunctionName(argc, argv[]) RTFP P=? prototype ah, proto If I pass *argv[] won't it pass a pointer to argv[]? yeah paste the prototype please void ParseArguments( int, char ); you wrote it? Yes :) that prototype is probably bad as well then Hey! water: mathematics degree course descriptions look much more interesting 05:50pm eihrul: I just want to get the command line arguments to the function ParseArguments :) and some of it seems to overlap with computing areas as well yeah, math rocks... especially when you're dealing with problems that no one has answers for Water: Yes! Thats verycool! * eihrul/#tunes is indeed sick of having answers to problems thrown at him... instead of lame textbook problems lar1: i'd have to see your code, it seems the problem is more than your function call * water/#tunes often reminisces about the weekly proof-meet with some professors and math-majors that he once loved lar1: will you send it? eihrul: JUst a sec lemme tarball the whole 3 files :) How do I tarball again? tar -czf output.tar.gz input1 input2 input3 etc thanks some company patented online ad delivery?!? Heh 06:00pm int main (int argc, char *argv[]) void ParseArguments(int argc, char *argv) not the difference there one is a (char **), one is (char *) they should both be a (char **) er note Why char **? argv is an array of strings not a single string Whouldn't be at least 10000x better to make argv a 2 dim array? * eihrul/#tunes laughs. it is a string is an array of characters and argv is an array of those Yes, I know Ohh an array of arrays of characters So what I really want to do to access argv is argv[foo][bar]? no... what you really want to do is change the type of argv in ParseArguments () to match the type of the argv you're passing to it Right But after I do that * water/#tunes just wants to have some objects pass some messages around. :) a function is an object and it's arguments a message :) hardlt hardly but vaguely well, you've managed to spend 15 minutes explaining something that is trivial in smalltalk or a similar language so ii did not ask for the explanation -'so i' -:- fire` [no@209-68-229-130.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes lar1: okay... the segmentation fault happens becaure your prototype is different still from the actual definition yo just got back from my race lar1: you put the second argument to ParseArguments () as a char, so the compiler is most likely truncating your pointer to 8 bits Ok I made ParseArguments( int, char **) yes, brix is working perfectly water: or rather i mean i did not ask for the explanation of something that is trivial in smalltakl or similar language... water: he's using C, i'm not :) s/,/!/ * fire`/#tunes turns water into steam -:- fire` is now known as fire i told you not to get me steamed! :) 06:10pm Ok, thanks eihrul, it works now :) * eihrul/#tunes condenses water with some air conditioning. thanks :) i don't suppose anyone here wants to work on tunes or arrow? lar1: also note, argv [1] is itself a string, so %s instead of %c my my there are many open projects out there eihrul: Ok uh i'd help with arrow :D water: What needs to be done for tunes that I can do? Arrow goes 9x10^999999999999 miles over my head lar1: what can you do? lol i can like pretend i know stuff if that'll help :D fire: no, i've seen you try that before :) oh water: x86 asm and c++ lar1: _eek_ i think i'll pray on some unsuspecting open projects pray? leech all there knowledge, and disappear into the night water: pondering whether to finish this kernel, or actually contribue to tunes... fire: prey it is starting to become largely grunt work thankyou master my spelling is not like it ever was or will be water: I can do basic baisc basic perl as well :) lar1: _eek_ lar1: what about tunes interests you, though? water: Mmmm, I dunno water: I just want to see it all work, I find reflection cool water: But think it not very practical but reflection's purpose is to make programming effectively trivial Reflection is a great idea... except I can't see it running fast lar1: have you even messed with reflective programming? water: Nope * eihrul/#tunes recalls the Tao of Programming... lar1: then how can you claim anything about it? brb (0xf00d) :D Water: before a few months agao I had no clue wat reflection is "The wise programmer does not write programs; he writes programs that write his programs for him." lar1: btw, reflection is not emulation water: Cause I claim what I can derive from the theroy fire: Heh what theory? water: What reflection is, how it works, etc I know it ins't emulation which you learned from... ? Tril lar1: what's the difference, then, between emulation and reflection Reflection abstracts the hell out of everything ? emulation simulates a totally different envrioment but are you emulating abstractions when you reflect? 06:20pm Uhh... no? hehe How can you emulate an abstraction? damnit! I see what you mean by writing an interpreter for a language containing those abstractions eumlation is just a very fancy form or abstraction s/or/of But the more you abstract the slower you go unless you recompile the binary form in which case, you can factor out the interpretation layer overhead the problem is that doing so is complicated in the general case make sense? btw, if you re-use consistently a group of abstractions whose overhead has been compiled away, the cost of reflection diminishes Yes Sorry, frend called cool np He wanted to know if I wanted any sun 3-60s!... too high of a price methinks btw, reflection is just like re-compiling a linux kernel I don't know much abou Linuxes kernel for how much? $50 or so s/linux/any os how fast is it? [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Solitude (GHOST command used by Solitude_) water: Not sure... but not very. I already have a 3-50 so I can't justify the 50 bucks for the little more speed * water/#tunes can't imagine being in close proximity to lots of non-intel machines not because i wouldn't want to You don't like suns? or Alphas? [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed pyre (GHOST command used by pyre-) no, i do very much water: in a programming language we are trying to harness the expressive power of the human mind...i was thinking about making everything an object (data and code) and how it unifies and simplifies everything...the problem is, the human mind thinks of nouns and verbs as separate entities...what are your thoughts? but i _never_ see them 06:30pm fire: whoa. gimme a sec fire: I don't think of nouns and verbs any differently fire: nouns and verbs introduce complexity hence the simplification fire: Wait... I am confused... I am just gonna watch :) well, there are some experimental human languages with only one grammatical type i like the idea of simplifiying them (mine being an example) water: You are making a language? water: I attempted to do that... failed miserably methinks i'll just stick with the unification i started work on it in high-school, then realized that the software version would be accepted better if it came first it already is at a very advanced state water: Do you speak it? :) a spoken language? i spoke with a friend of mine in it for a few weeks i must go mostly as an experiment i must also learn this language :D fire: why so soon? later fire so we can talk in it my brother is bitching at me I would also like to learn it btw, arrow is based on that language :D brb back Water: How complete is the language? -:- SignOff fire: #TUNES (Ping timeout for fire[209-68-229-130.dialup.cust.tfb.com]) not very, but then it's a very rich language the alphabet is still in beta, unfortunately water: Is it complete enough to carry out conversations with it? definitely water: Does it have roots in other languages or is this totally new? it's already (imo) the best candidate for an auxiliary language out there, and i've done the research well, i was using greek and latin roots for a time to bootstrap it, and it generalizes some concepts from various languages, but in general it resembles none btw, it's also reflective :) water: How can a spoken language be reflective? How can a spoken language need a bootstrap? hehe perhaps I am misunderstanding you? some of the words were planned to be used to change the tense system 06:40pm the language has no fixed vocab, so i had to improvise by modifying an existing intuitive vocab Uhhh hehe This sounds harder then Spanish! :) * water/#tunes keels over With all the yo tu el nosotros Heh, I didn't meen to hurt you :) the alphabet is organized by phonetic classification you mustn't for get vosotros I don't like vosotros! water: What is the alpabet? Same as english? no me gusta tu tambien, lar1! :) nope. four 16-letter groups water: So... how can I use this on my computer? each divided bit-wise into smaller categories 64 letters? 65 letters?!? s/65/64 well, 16 are digits (which are vocalized as accents) 16 are vowels I can just see it now... no Jhonny that 192.168.10.2 should be a 192.168.10.1! the language is a clean implementation of a philosophy i have been working on that could shorten speech however