IRC log started Sun Sep 5 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0905 -:- telemchs [telemchs@pit-pa1-10.ix.netcom.com] has joined #Tunes -:- liar [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff telemchs: #TUNES (Ping timeout for telemchs[pit-pa1-10.ix.netcom.com]) -:- iLLf8d [moe@207.151.14.183] has joined #Tunes hi all anyone awake? guess not -:- iLLf8d [moe@207.151.14.183] has left #Tunes [] -:- SignOff Mr_Wrong: #TUNES (leaving) 12:40am -:- SignOff liar: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) -:- NetSplit: devlin.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [02:36am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [devlin.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: devlin.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #Tunes -:- Crimson [crimson@chaosdev.org] has joined #Tunes -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #Tunes -:- ServerMode/#Tunes [+oo fare Tril] by clarke.openprojects.net !clarke.openprojects.net!! Received :sterling.openprojects.net SERVER hogan.openprojects.net from sterling.openprojects.net !?! -:- SignOff Crimson: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Crimson[chaosdev.org]) -:- Crimson [crimson@chaosdev.org] has joined #tunes * Crimson/#tunes is gone. Gone since Thu Sep 2 14:19:00 1999 -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp98.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us321.javanet.com] has joined #tunes Tril? rumour has it Tril is tunes's l33t daddy -:- ElGato` [no@209.68.229.239] has joined #tunes abi: forget Tril hcf: I forgot tril hi is argc first on the stack then argv? 09:10am arguments are pushed on the stack in opposite order of the way they're listed -:- pyro [tcn@cci-209150250128.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes hence the name "stack" but is argc first? hi pyro hey, i'm back yes ok they're pushed that way so they maintain logical ordering my "good" hard drive crapped out yesterday or atleast consistent :) PYRO! I'VE BEEN WORRYED SICK ABOUT YOU! ARE YOU ALRIGHT?! haha :D pyro: retro did it to your harddrive I didn't run retro on that machine :P I think it just ran too hot plus, it was an NEC hard drive, and they stopped making HD's, probably because they SUCK never heard of em did you get my email? anyways, I got another machine el: just got your mail, haven't looked into it yet ok * ElGato`/#tunes doesn't see how when he trys to use a peice of data in another file that is debugged it prints errors :\ I have lots of stuff to set up still ok The only OS I could find was DOS 6.2 then I found a FreeBSD boot disk, which is enough to get on the net and install the rest of it.. so that's what I got :) too bad Linux ain't like that 09:20am 20 different distributions that all suck grow your own :P yeah, from now on, my Linux installations will be homegrown hey, you seen mulinux? * ElGato`/#tunes can't even get slack on his computer very long question ensues: i don't really bother i have bespin no mulinux fits a whole little Linux installation on a 1720k floppy i am implementing synchronous messaging, the sender's buffer is mapped into the receiver's address space and copied... but messages must be mapped into the exact same place in the address space so if a receiver tries to receive more than two messages, that area of the address space needs to be invalidated pyro: that's one big floppy :\ according to optimization god, invplg is very expensive and i'm wondering if it might not be better to just flush the whole TLB or just invalidate only the pages i'm using for mapping the second time around? er optimization guide brain fart hmm.. experiment? CClinux is pretty nice as well, as fits on a normal floppy... doesn't do half as much as mulinux though i can't experiment yet i just want to get the kernel, bash, and a comm program yeah, mulinux has some tiny executables in it and i'm not building the kernel incrementally then i can download from gnu pyro: is the print macro part of nasm? really large messages would in effect flush the whole TLB as they're being copied or atleast a good deal of it 09:30am ElGato`: no it's there in retro but i cannot find it teh definition that is in one of the .mac files forth.mac most likely ok i fixed most of my fpu.inc problem call patch_int not callproc callproc is on the way out that's when you're using stack frames, like C just great oh well almost everything in retro uses 2 stacks, forth-sytle yes yes even my C compiler will use 2 stacks :) not like your forth interpreter thoguh :P pyro: you're psycho muahhaha el: print ain't a macro sprint is. it's in macros.mac forth sure is purty 09:40am how do you define variables in forth? VARIABLE whatever oh how... prefixish heh you can also do CREATE , D: I like that, but I didn't do CREATE yet if that isn't prefix then i must be crazy looks kinda like C doesn't it? yes if it were up to me i'd do it differently although it would be kinda dirty 09:50am hey this 350mhz thing kicks ass! compiled nasm in like 3 seconds :) a 350? I coulda got a 450, but why? i'd still have a 100mhz bus 40 seconds... on my 300mhz what OS? err.. how much ram? 10:00am damnit i gotta start school in two days linux, 192 MB pity me er rather, debian linux er 196 me means -:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (Ping timeout for pyro[cci-209150250128.clarityconnect.net]) 10:10am -:- pyro [tcn@cci-209150250126.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes wb did I miss anything? no you missed 'nothing' ahh man, I gotta re-do all my configuration files.. .profile, all that shit.. -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us321.javanet.com]) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us321.javanet.com] has joined #tunes 10:20am WB BUDDY :D * pyro/#tunes is away: (Auto-Away after 10 mins) [BX-MsgLog Off] * pyro/#tunes is back from the dead. Gone 0 hrs 1 min 21 secs uh wb i guess 10:30am -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-208.ici.net] has joined #tunes hi downix hey pyro: It's BitchX freebsd? Stampede BSD actually you mean BSD is being linuxized? pretty soon there are gonna be 100 BSD's too.. arrgh :) pyro: This is a problem how? 10:40am -:- SignOff ElGato`: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ElGato`[209.68.229.239]) incompatibilities.. what's Stampede bsd based on? actually, it is a modified OpenBSD not "linux-izing" it so much as just customizing it for the power user/ease of install it's still a BSD 10:50am does it install from 1 disk like fsbd? that saved the day yesterday :) fbsd needs 2 disks obsd needs 1, and ours needs 1, yes I just installed fbsd from 1 that's fbsd 2.x fbsd 3.x needs 2 I found a the disk image laying around on my surviving HD well, good for you I've used OBSD's install floppy a dozen times to save my hide anyway, I'm back in action :) ok * Downix/#tunes prefers obsd, but it's slow heh the customization I'm doing is speeding the damned thing up I wonder if I should grab 3.x 2 floppies and not much of an improvement IMHO I might need newer kernel drivers ok then just download the srcsys yup it should all be compatible? don't see why not of course that philosophy is from Linux keep the kernel modular from the OS that way it's easier to upgrade w/o a distro I'll try that with SBSD Now if I had my OS a little further along, I wouldn't be having this trouble.. 11:00am which OS is that? retro ok, what does it do that other OSes don't? it doesn't hog your computer :) doesn't get in your way DOS didn't... AmigaOS didn't DOS didn't... CP/M didn't COS didn't those had some serious shortcomings though every OS has shortcomings QNX doesn't hell, if set up right, Linux doesn't either QNX is expensive! that's a major one heh eihrul: I know, but it doesn't get in the way it hogs your cash it's not open either... i can't hack QNX source code :) right * Downix/#tunes nods ok pyro, we've established that isn't a new idea, so what else does retro have? a cool name it doesn't have ANY new ideas, ok? if it did it would be called FUTURO ;) well, what does it do that other's don't? What issues does it address? You mentioned that it addresses the memory footprint issue then shouldn't retro be called viejo or presente or sumtin? I'm more curious, is it a microkernel, exokernel, monolithic, does it handle multi-tasking in cooperate, preemptive, what about interface, CLI or GUI? 11:10am -:- ElGato` [no@209-68-229-134.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes bax0r ;) pyro: how is the rstack managed? -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-208.ici.net] has left #tunes [] managed?? like how is each next address pushed onto it during runtime and junk it's just the EBP register (used as the rstack pointer) and a few macros in forth.mac... DPUSH, DPOP, etc.. no no i mean in a forth in general how many items are on the rstack and how often is it refreshed rstack.. the return stack? yes 11:20am sorry, i'm kinda busy but.. these forth stacks are pretty simple this primer tells me the rstack has the address of the next word anytime a subroutine is called (that's CALL in asm), the current IP is pushed on the rstack, and a RET pops that oh, sometimes the rstack is used for temporary storage like local variables this primer says the rstack for example is used for the limit of if...then so does if search for the address of then on the stack ? pyro! long time no see el: maybe eforth does that.. hmmm you can do something any way you want, as long as it works yes well i want a language that can define any looping construct within itself with only if...then as a core primative you can do that with nasm preprocessor eforth does little ... what does nasm have to do with this? ElGato: lambda-calculus can do that all it needn't even booleans 11:30am oh? i mean by manipulating a stack in a very universal way well, lambda-calc can be done with a stack, too (see the SECD-machine) as it pertains to the forth return stack which is like any stack if you only had if...then stuctured programming in forth, how would you define begin...until? you couldn't? D: you need to jump back blarg -:- liar [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes god forbid allowing goto in a language you could do it with if..then and jmp :* so i guess begin...until and if...then would have to be primative damn floppies suck, it's taking me an hour to copy retro over from my old machine how the hell big is it? 1.3M, with a bunch of junk included that will fit on a single floppy have you given retro a version number? 9 oh it be better like "v0.0.9 " EG: with high-order functions or combinators 11:40am using EXECUTE excuse me? EXECUTE executes a token given on stack ok el: I'm not doing that 0.0.9 thing at the end of the loop, if must go back, push the token for the beginning of the loop on stack, and execute go back where? hmmm? back to the BEGIN >>> pyro [tcn@cci-209150250126.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 936557456 534251 from #tunes 11:50am could you like actually write the code in the channel ;) im sorta slow with forth nah, it's a slow day here too whatever I type will be wrong :( i'll figure it out (like a professor) liar: what's up? not much im working on a gtk frontend for bochs to make debugging much easier hehe hey, I bet my new machine can run bochs at a decent speed it will automatically display all of my system structures and it will allow others to enter their own data structure formats so it can be used to debug anything, not just brix I do my debugging within the os i need a new dos image for retro and mine went bye bye is it on your site? uhh :) the one on your site is pretty old you mean dosboot.bin and kernel.bin? whatever i image onto a floppy I ain't sending the WHOLE dosimage (1.44m) 12:00pm hehehe uhh while yer sending to him can i get one too :) how am I ever supposed to have time to hack my own damn os.. :) pyro: u know anything about pipes? and C some eihrul gave me a function to replace popen() so i can r/w to a pipe but it is dumping the pipes output to stdout of my program -:- BigJim [Your@209.250.35.127] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff ElGato`: #TUNES (Read error to ElGato`[209-68-229-134.dialup.cust.tfb.com]: EOF from client) rmmm? how so? -:- ElGato` [no@209-68-229-134.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes ah yer here eihrul: i gave u the code EG: see Y no ya didn't ok let me fixup a few things and ill send it to ya fare: what? !irq:*! Something happened to adams.* .. im not sure what, but it involved one ip being derouted and the clock being set exactly one day in the future... everything is working fine now though !irq:*! One of those things that happened caused dancer to die.. i su'd dancer, then ./dancer'd . i hope thats correct, it appears to be working :) 12:10pm * pyro/#tunes is away: (Auto-Away after 10 mins) [BX-MsgLog Off] * pyro/#tunes is back from the dead. Gone 0 hrs 0 min 7 secs liar: taking you long enough there pyre: u want it too? eihrul: accept the dcc accepted C++ style comments? liar: nah eihrul: they are nicer :) yes they are * pyro/#tunes nods 12:20pm of course forth and asm are nice too but c comments plain suck! nah.. C style are nice asm and c++ dont force u to close the single linecomment fare: how do you run 'ls' in scsh? eihrul: fix it yet? still trying to coax it into running bochs correctly oh... the output you're seeing is STDERR as opposed to STDOUT crap thats what i thought it's good that way so you can still see error messages -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-73.ici.net] has joined #tunes back wb well that was fun, NOT Downix: what did ya do? Well, I found out that my new car's battery wires are put on backwards I found this out by putting in a new battery, aligned with the wires correctly liar: you do know you know about incremental compilation do you? :) * Downix/#tunes now has a fried cylanoid eihrul: what is that? ouch solenoid however it's spelt liar: you can compile multiple .c files into separate object files, and then compile them together thats ok they only cost about $10-20 $7, I priced it out already what else did ya fry? u fry yer computer and yer fucked I'm also buying new wires too liar: it's a 1978 Mustang, no computer it's just a 6811 or something Downix: oh then feel lucky pyro: Nothing, the solenoid and it's wiring blew, luckily liar: No, feel smart. I chose an old car for a reason hehe 12:30pm but I'm taking it into the shop anyways, better safe than sorry pyro: do u know what car computers cost? * Downix/#tunes does, he had to buy a new computer for his '87 stang once -:- BigJim [Your@209.250.35.127] has left #tunes [] Downix: u just said it doesnt have a computer I bet they really rape ya $5000 for a $5 computer liar: No, my 78 doesn't have a computer, my 87 does D: -:- BigJim [Your@209.250.35.127] has joined #tunes a new comp for a '90 dodge shadow was $600 and refurb was $300 78 and 87, how nice i have no idea what it will cost for my new car and hope i never have to find out hehe pyro: Hey, it'll be cool im taking drivers ed this year :D me am listen to car talk liar: You are lucky, Dodge computers are the cheapest ones out there, since they are diag and injector systems, not command systems like my ex fiance's grand am computer was. That thing ran for $2800 Downix: dont tell me that, i have a pontiac sunfire now my car has a computer in it.. all it does is tell me when the other useless electronic components fuck up liar: ha ha! grand am's suck.. pyro: yes they do. pyro: no they dont hehe liar: I drove one for 2 y3ears, they suck royally, especially before 1994 Downix: i have a 94 grand am and it dont suck, and i had a 95 and it didnt suck a guy in my band got a '94 grand am to replace his '84 toyota with 200+k on it.. the grand am has more problems.. liar: I said before 1994 liar: the 1985-1993 models were a major pain in the ass. Downix: then use the term "they use to suck" liar: Alright, ammended and corrected I think they still do, you're just lucky american cars... pyro: Well, I wouldn't know gotta love their problems :D they suck ElGato`: Hey, foreign cars are as problematic if not more so than american cars and my sunfire has zero problems yeah ElGato`: Shall I quote to you all of the problems my uncle had with his Hyundai for the 3 weeks he owned it? liar: i suppose you still want me to write the parsing stuff now, huh? just sell it before it gets too old hehe when i start driving i get my mom's altima eihrul: ya :) oh boy :) liar: okay, will work on it some eihrul: did u get it working? yep ElGato`: let's just say when the car finally died even the door handles didn't work eihrul: did u find the buttons.inc file? yep hahah downix: that sounds like my car no ac, no windows, only 1 working door handles, half-broken automatic transmission... etc eihrul: Well, I don't drive many car types anymore. eihrul: oh and i know about the multiple c file thing, i just dont use it :) eihrul: if u like u can make it do that