IRC log started Tue Aug 31 00:00:01 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0831 WHERE THE HELL CAN I GET SOME DOCUMENTATION ABOUT IDE/ATA. HAVE BEEN SEARCHING ALL WEEK!!! -:- lar1 [lar1@1Cust158.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes Hey 12:30am hi... do you know where I can get good ide/ata dokumentation? Nope Hmmm, I need GNOME help... anyone here know about that stuff? abi: nasm? well, nasm is at http://www.cryogen.com/nasm or at http://www.erols.com/johnfine/ abi: ide? hmmm... ide is simpler -- only one "chipset" or an acronym for Integrated Development Environment, a software package with compiler, editor and debugger all in one. abi: ata? bugger all, i dunno, crimson 12:40am Have you tried borg? what's that? http://www.tunes.org/~qz/borg.qzx.com I belive Its a collection of programming docs Abi: borg? hmmm... borg is is connected to _QZ's lan and uses a 33.6k modem to dialup to the internet ok... Crimson: look under the infoz dir ok... TUNES sucks, BRIX roxx. ;) :) that site was really slow. You wouldn't be able to help with gnome would you? 12:50am faster then http://borg.qzx.com the one at tunes is like a mirror ok... *searching for ide/ata-stuff* -:- lar1 [lar1@1Cust158.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net] has left #tunes [] -:- lar1 [lar1@1Cust158.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes Hrmmm I can't join more then 1 channel with this wonder program not good. mIRC? No, I'm in linux, ircii !irq:*! 'nite openprojects! 01:00am epic4 here... leaving now... see you later... -:- SignOff Crimson: #TUNES ("Man have more hair on chest than woman - but on the whole woman have more.") -:- lar1 [lar1@1Cust158.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net] has left #tunes [] 01:10am -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp181.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [01:38am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: sterling.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- terrorist [terrorist@164.47.71.59] has joined #Tunes -:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp181.lvdi.net] has joined #Tunes !zsoldos.openprojects.net!! Received :irc.linux.com SERVER hogan.openprojects.net from irc.linux.com !?! !zsoldos.openprojects.net!! Received :irc.linux.com SERVER hogan.openprojects.net from irc.linux.com !?! -:- water [water@ppp-tnt-127.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- water [water@ppp-tnt-127.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes -:- water [water@ppp-tnt-127.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- NetSplit: zsoldos.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [02:15am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [zsoldos.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: zsoldos.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- terrorist [terrorist@164.47.71.59] has joined #Tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp181.lvdi.net] has joined #Tunes !sterling.openprojects.net!! Received :irc.linux.com SERVER hogan.openprojects.net from forward.openprojects.net !?! -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- LinuxKnight [LinuxKnigh@sdn-ar-001casdieP257.dialsprint.net] has joined #Tunes -:- LinuxKnight [LinuxKnigh@sdn-ar-001casdieP257.dialsprint.net] has left #Tunes [] -:- Plundis [plundis@chaosdev.org] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us921.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-121.ici.net] has joined #tunes morning hi wow, someone's awake no i got here a moment b4 u did ok Fare: any progress? Fare: cat got ur keyboard? cat /dev/keyboard fare 06:00am -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (BitchX Lite I said!) abi: dynamo00 is at http://domino.watson.ibm.com/confrnc/dynamo/dynamo00.nsf/ Fare: what happened to the ual guy? ual? ual is (should be) at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/2320/ua/ no idea. If you're interested, try email is ual not of interest to TUNES? 06:50am Fare?\ 07:00am abi: MathMorphs is a project combining Mathematics and Smalltalk at http://www.dm.uba.ar/MathMorphs/ hcf: ual might be, but I'm not convinced 07:10am what ARE u convinced of? ;) 07:20am -:- MaxD [m.dentico@a73.teseo.it] has joined #tunes buongiorno hi Fare :o) or lo? being reading that P.Wegner paper difficult to print, due to it specifying USLetter or so what's your opinion? 07:40am Fare, a PDF version here: http://www.jeffsutherland.org/papers/wegner95.pdf 07:50am someone should grab the .gif specification and hand-code a GIF file named fuck_unisys.gif BY HAND, so that the unlicensed software be his own mind. :-) and start selling copies of this .gif, too where can I find a .gif specification? Fare: comp.graphics faq perhaps mmm .. wait a moment Fare can anyone draw a simple FUCK UNISYS, or FUCK SOFTWARE PATENTS bitmap picture that I can hand-compress? try here:The Programmer's File Format Collection (http://www.wotsit.org/) oh, and they'll have to sue my parents for making unlicensed software. Or rather, I'll say that the software with which the image was computed is anterior to their patents (I was born pre-1984), so that their patent is void. are you a software Fare? (what a wonderfull AI ... :-P) yes, I am software. no, I'm a pretty stupid AI, but my creator is great! a good god 08:30am good? certainly not! how can he be good? good is a concept relative to this universe. he is outside of the universe, in a meta-universe. he may be meta-good, or meta-evil, in that universe. but in ours, he just is. facts are neither good, nor evil. They just are. do you have heard never speak about ADATE? ADATE: Automatic Design of Algorithms Through Evolution (http://www-ia.hiof.no/~rolando/adate_intro.html) abi: ADATE is Automatic Design of Algorithms Through Evolution (http://www-ia.hiof.no/~rolando/adate_intro.html) 08:40am see you later -:- MaxD [m.dentico@a73.teseo.it] has left #tunes [] 09:10am -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us921.javanet.com]) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us319.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- MaxD [m.dentico@a122.teseo.it] has joined #tunes hi all -:- SignOff MaxD: #TUNES (Ping timeout for MaxD[a122.teseo.it]) -:- MaxD [m.dentico@a69.teseo.it] has joined #tunes 11:00am -:- lar1 [lar1@1Cust37.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes Hey -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) Anyone able to help me with E+Gnome trobules? no, sorry Lar1 -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Read error to lar1[1Cust37.tnt20.sfo3.da.uu.net]: Connection reset by peer) 11:10am -:- lar1 [lar1@1Cust24.tnt3.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes Is anyone alive? yes Lar1 i can't help you with Gome, sorry -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[quatramaran.ens.fr]) Yay! Bochs is compiling.... the newest version had a broken debugger when I tried to compile Bahh! Nevermind the debugger is still broken! Anyone know bochs? bochs is a PC emulator at http://www.bochs.com that runs on win32, un*x, beos, mac, os/2 and amiga 11:20am bye -:- MaxD [m.dentico@a69.teseo.it] has left #tunes [] -:- lar1 [lar1@1Cust24.tnt3.sfo3.da.uu.net] has left #tunes [] 11:30am -:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- MaxD [m.dentico@a69.teseo.it] has joined #tunes -:- MaxD [m.dentico@a69.teseo.it] has left #tunes [] -:- ElGato` [no@209.68.229.232] has joined #tunes HI FRIENDS :D 12:00pm * ElGato`/#tunes is vexed by how many errors he gets every time he compiles a c program hum EG: man lint EG: apparently, the compiler is even more vexed than you are. Any "Mission: Impossible" knower around there? what's the formula used to propose a mission? something like "This mission, should you accept it, will be thus:" ... goodmorning mr bla bla bla then they explain a bunch of stuff about some people and organizations then he goes "your mission should you decide to accept it..." "this tape will self destruct in 10 seconds" i think it's 10 01:10pm i really wanna program in forth but i mean how many people have actual forth *compilers* 01:20pm apt-get install gforth true true how come bespin doesn't have gforth? want it? yes well, done. ok :D 01:30pm what about the part "should you or one of your men get caught..." ? "should you or any of your be caught, we shall disemvow(i can't spell it) any knowledge of your actions" disavow? any of your what? um i think it's team or something but i don't know 01:40pm why do you ask fare? what's the right expression: "you get extra points..." you get extra for being a ...? i don't know exactly what your talking about i don't remember that being in mission impossible no, it's not. I'm writing a mission briefing for hackers... oh well you should go to a mission impossible fan site * ElGato`/#tunes is tempted to use getc must not grrr! 01:50pm -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us140.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-93.ici.net] has joined #tunes morning all Downix: thats the 2nd time today u'v joined directly after me I'm stalking you, that's why so i'm unsafe from u since i'm in maine and maine has no anti-stalking laws right I think Maine needs a major wake-up call like, guarantee of freedom from prejudice due to religious or sexual preference maine is beyond fixing, should just be destroyed works for me at least New Hampshire has some hope not much, but some * Downix/#tunes is looking up ALU units to study -:- ElGato` has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: http://www.armory.com/tests/hacker.html :D ElGato`: add dont replace ElGato`: fix it! 02:00pm we had no topic before damn desync'd topic -:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System || scalable knowledge bases- http://www.framerd.org/ || http://www.armory.com/tests/hacker.html * ElGato`/#tunes gives hcf some alcohol to calm him down * hcf/#tunes refuses it D: * Downix/#tunes has taken the hacker test before, I got a 40% downix is the most likely to have found a bug in microcode :P * Downix/#tunes laughs * ElGato`/#tunes wants to use getc but fears it is too slow abi: stats Since Sun Aug 29 12:19:24 1999, there have been 117 modifications and 60 questions. I have been awake for 2 days, 1 hour, 49 minutes, 38 seconds this session, and currently reference 5670 factoids. 02:10pm abi: Linux? hmmm... Linux is elementary penguin singing hare krishna or a junkie's delight hehe abi: abi? somebody said i was the little girl borg with a big brain or #tunes' personal little whore or gaklosmontic or flurivostuginuous or xyvarestoplik or an Artificial Idiot or braindead or a crack addict infoslut or stubborn abi: sgi? wish i knew, downix abi: slashdot? i heard slashdot was back up ok abi: downix? downix is dumb :P hahaha * Downix/#tunes deserves that one downix is dumb :P don't listen to him abi: forget downix hcf: I forgot downix elgato? i heard elgato was annoyed when you ask that hickserv? rumour has it hickserv is wastes his time so effectively or the official Tunes knowledge moocher abi: hickserv is also my best friend :D okay, ElGato`. abi: Downix is cool abi: Downix? it has been said that Downix is cool thank you hcf? hcf is referring to revamping the Review project wait for it... her DBs r full of shit which will be gone in a min or 2 hmm -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (dying by hcf's request) -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes abi: stats Since Tue Aug 31 14:18:43 1999, there have been 0 modifications and 1 questions. I have been awake for 13 seconds this session, and currently reference 473 factoids. note the dramatic decrease in the number of factoids referenced hmm that's not good abi: abi? i am the little girl borg with a big brain or #tunes' personal little whore or gaklosmontic or flurivostuginuous or xyvarestoplik or an Artificial Idiot or braindead or a crack addict infoslut or stubborn how so? 02:20pm Downix: how so? hcf: large database. SLower to search it Downix: the DBs r smaller now ok Downix: 'are' db was 131072, now its 16384. 'is' db was 557056, now its 86016 ok 02:30pm is "bringing sb to the dock" a right way to say "prosecute"? not any expression i've ever heard of uh, never heard of it * Downix/#tunes is studying up on the MIPS CPU downix: whata you gonna make? Depends on which one would be best to market * Downix/#tunes has been seriously pondering quite a few options one is a MIPS ATX motherboard, another is a MIPS-based internet appliance, and so on now tell me again about your business right now it's mostly geared for designing a MIPS-based solution, either an open solution (bad due to the major competition w/ Microsoft) or an embedded solution (bad due to the competition w/ Microsoft(WebTV) but I am studying up on a possible alternative route that is relatively free of competition i see 02:40pm do you own this company? me and my partner do, yes i see do you have any products available right now or are you just working off of investors? * Downix/#tunes has to decide weither to finish the ATX board and risk the market, or to turn it into an appliance... or to scrap both for the more compeditive product that'll require more development. right now I'm working off of personal savings actually uh oh better work fast then :P I could have a product ready (the ATX) within a week, but now I'm concerned over marketing it and this would just be a regular ol' MIPS mother board? right hmmm 8 PCI slots, no ISA no isa is nice i heard intel was working on that also no standard keyboard, serial, etc. only USB and a single serial port not bad very bare-bones system I designed it to use either the RM5271 or RM7000 CPU the RM7000 is basically two RM5271's stuck together im sorry but i am kinda hardware illiterate...what are pci and what are they used for? PCI is a bus slot, what you plug video cards, sound cards, etc. into oh yes ok well what kind of appliance will you be able to make out of this (as you mentioned before)? The Internet Appliance is using the same basic schematic, a lower-end CPU (no L2 or L3 cache) and built-in audio, video, etc. But no bus slots to expand it hmmm -:- max_ [max@as4-dial75.pntc.mi.voyager.net] has joined #Tunes hey Max well how many companys have actually implemented no isa? i heard the idea is quite new quite new? * Downix/#tunes can name off systems from 1985 that had no ISA hmmm My old Amiga's had Zorro slots w/o ISA slots i mean just usb and very little serial port stuff Zorro's performance is about comparable to PCI * Downix/#tunes nods only Intel so far as I know 02:50pm but that's big competition even if we have the edge in performance -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp201.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes i see with the um Plus our cost is greater, $500 for the lower-end board, $600 for the higher-end new celeron processor or something that new chipset Intel's celeron line is nowhere near as fast as a true RISC can be it's still CISC yes i say market the board down: i'd take a risc chip even if it were tad slower... so long as it's easier to program for :) if you have a mips without all that serial shit then you're doing ok as long as i get a discount ;) eihrul: MIPS is damed easy to code for, a lot of universities use them for teaching assembly hehe yep... i've looked at mips instruction set a few times, tis very nice in comparison Well, to produce them I'd need an EEPROM burner and a MIPS system to make a boot ROM that that's the only thing I lack get somebody to invest in you * Downix/#tunes can hand-etch the board if need-be heh have fun ElGato`: They invest in college degreed people, not college dropouts w/ good ideas anymore ElGato`: It's easy to do ya know. true i guess you could try to get a loan those that do tho get the real payoff. Note Yahoo and Hotmail * Downix/#tunes is considering a loan, would not require too much to do it but yahoo and hotmail are quite old already eihrul: They are now. But at one time they were just ideas that companies invested in eihrul: I used Yahoo back when the guys were still in college but now you have a million clones * Downix/#tunes nods that provide essentially equivalent services accept google just blows them all away IMHO that's when you know you got the right idea, when you get it first and then everyone else followes google? I've never used it although having a company invest in you can be good and bad ElGato`: I know. I want to do the loan route myself, then I control it. if they put money into you are influenced by them greatly however if you can ride the bear down: www.google.com obviously ElGato`: I'm going to try and. You've got a point about the ATX board, but it's the cost that's got me concerned. 03:00pm why pay $500 for a 300Mhz MIPS ATX mobo w/ CPU, when you can pay only $280 to get a 500Mhz Celeron w/ mobo? yes twice the price, and my Mhz speed is nowhere near the Intel board sure, but it's still an x86... can't you upgrade clock speed? ElGato`: 300Mhz is the fastest model made. ok then ElGato`: Of course it's SPEC is comparable with 600Mhz Pentium III's then why worry but noone cares about SPEC, they want Mhz what was the specint of the two? you aren't working with ordinary people...windows only runs on x86 and alpha eihurl: SPECint of the RM7000 is 19.4 SPECint of the Pentium 3 is 21 ElGato`: Actually, WIndows will run on this too down: damn it... i want one eihrul: The SPECfp of the RM7000 is 24.3 I believe are they porting to mips? i don't do many fp bound programs int is my biggest concern ElGato`: They developed NT ON MIPS. NT on Alpha is just NT MIPS ElGato`: Alpha CPU's run MIPS software native, and vice-versa oh my mistake then ElGato`: It's not often mentioned, but it's true. The only difference in the Alpha and MIPS is that the Alpha has twice the registers i see * Downix/#tunes was suprised to find that out, he booted up NetBSD for MIPS on an Alpha CPU so running alpha software on mips is probably bad, eh? * ElGato`/#tunes is thinking about marketing i just wonder if this is the right time to market this eihrul: yep. But porting it is simple, plus there's software that'll fool software into sharing registers in the business world it is all abbout timing * Downix/#tunes nods to ElGato. el: whens a better time? when the merced is released? eh? right now, no. the market's reeling from Athlon plus a higher-Mhz model of MIPS is coming this november, 400Mhz yes well i suppose now is the best time RM5271 and RM7000 again oh ok then perhaps later although actually, that might be a good time since the merced is vaporware anyway I was figuring that late november, early december would be the ideal time Merced's a joke, everyone knows it. Even HP is going "uh... We'll keep RISC around for awhile, a LONG while" then just hype some people up and get your board ready 03:10pm * Downix/#tunes nods I have a single copy of it working right now looks like shit tho I'm using a slower CPU too, 250Mhz down: what was jokey about it? some parts of the design seemed valid the 300 Mhz model is very new. getting better "threaded" code, preventing branching eihrul: All of it's "advantages" exist already in other designs. It's like Microsoft claiming that "the 32-bit OS has arrived" when we Amiga users were laughing out loud at Window's "new" features that we'd had for years those features might be there, but they are not explicit :) the Merced's "threads" came right from Alpha. The branch-prediction is from the Pentium, the core-optimization is strasight PA-RISC eihrul: No, but explicity isn't always a good thing. it did lead to massive machine language bloat, no? i used to like x86 asm but it became to large of an instruction set that is why i like risc most of the x86 instructions are deprecated so the useful instruction set hasn't grown too much * Downix/#tunes nods my feeling is that Merced's not that killer, other arch's (SPARC and MIPS) will grow beyond Merced only if they get the average joe market or atleast the developer market they might MIPS is doing a good job otherwise, hype will win out and intel will thrust merced down upon us whether it's good or not... it happened once already * Downix/#tunes nods what would happen to intel if mips and sparc overtake it though? same thing that happens to every company that looses, bought out it's just an odd thought... intel... broke abi: intel? elgato`: bugger all, i dunno abi: windows well, windows is a 32bit patch for a 16bit shell on an 8bit OS originally made for 4bit machines by a 2bit company that can't stand 1bit of competition eihrul: Well, Intel came from TI ya know but was TI necessarily broke? :) nope, but it's no longer #1 they changed strategy when intel managed to toast them in the market. Intel will do the same thing 03:20pm hrmm... what will they market then, pentium toasters? probably chipsets but... then if sparc inherits a monopoly that could be just as bad as x86 I don't think anything will get a monopoly the PC is dying ...:( to what? embedded designs you mean as in: only networked toasters, but no computers? :) bah! eihrul: No, they're still computers, but not open designs i want processing power not a networked toaster people want power, and it's at the point that open architectures can no longer deliver that power why not? because of their very nature being? open designs default to "lowest common denomination" 03:30pm so nothing can be truely optimized notice an SGI's 3D performance over a PC w/ a 3Dfx card so why not an open design not catering to the lowest common denominator? the 3Dfx may be performing more computations per second, but because of the limitations of the open architecture it's built around, it cannot achieve the performance that the older, slower SGI can it's like the problem I have with my car's exhaust manifold I could get a generic model, and performance will drop