IRC log started Fri Jan 29 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0129
ωνω jdl [jiml@ultra1.inconnect.com] has joined #tunes
<jdl> Hello, log-lurkers!  ;)
<jdl> I'm just here to satisfy my curiosity.
<jdl> abi?
<abi> yes, jdl?
<jdl> abi, Prism?
<abi> Prism is not an OS.  :)  It's (at the moment) the realization of a development philosophy, and (in the long run, I hope) a development platform.
<jdl> Hmmm.... actually, that's not a bad description.  :)
<jdl> Let's see if I can come up with a better one... hmmm...
12:50am
<jdl> Prism is an attempt at realizing the development philosophy that programs are best expressed in a form which most closely matches the programmer's conceptual model of the program.
<jdl> Cool, I like it.  Now, did abi hear me?
<jdl> abi, Prism?
<abi> somebody said Prism was not an OS.  :)  It's (at the moment) the realization of a development philosophy, and (in the long run, I hope) a development platform.
<jdl> man abi
<jdl> ;)
<jdl> abi, Prism is not described by this sentence.
<abi> ...but prism is not an OS.  :)  It's (at the moment) the realization of a development philosophy, and (in the long run, I hope) a development platform....
<jdl> so?  you can be so stubborn...   ;)
<jdl> abi, Prism?
<abi> i think Prism is not an OS.  :)  It's (at the moment) the realization of a development philosophy, and (in the long run, I hope) a development platform.
<jdl> abi, forget about Prism
<abi> jdl, I didn't have anything matching about prism
<jdl> (Or things 'll get ugly, and you don't want that.)
<jdl> abi, forget Prism
<abi> jdl: I forgot prism
<jdl> abi, Prism is an attempt at realizing the development philosophy that programs are most easily developed by expressing them in a form that most closely matches the programmer's conceptual model of the program.
<abi> i'm sorry, but that entry is too long, jdl
<jdl> Argh!
<jdl> abi, what is the meaning of life?  ('Cause you're not going to experience it much longer...)
<abi> jdl: i haven't a clue
<jdl> Ain't that the truth.
<jdl> :b
<jdl> So, how do I make that astoundingly accurate description more concise?  Hmm...
01:00am
<jdl> abi, Prism is a compiler specification which attempts to ease programming by allowing the programmer to express programs in a form that matches the programmer's conceptual model of the program.
<jdl> Yay.  :b  I hate that definition.
<jdl> abi, Prism?
<abi> Prism is probably a compiler specification which attempts to ease programming by allowing the programmer to express programs in a form that matches the programmer's conceptual model of the program.
<jdl> abi, Prism is also a half-finished compiler.
<abi> i'm sorry, but that's too long, jdl
<jdl> Pthhthhhbbbbbbbbbbbb!
<jdl> Actually, abi, it's not your fault, is it?  It's irc.  Maybe your creator could program in multi-line support, eh?  :)
<jdl> ...On the other hand, that could be bad.  It sounds like it could be abused pretty easily.  Hmm.  Oh well!
<jdl> abi, forget Prism
<abi> jdl: I forgot prism
<jdl> abi, Prism is a specification & compiler which attempts to ease programming by allowing the programmer to express programs in a form that closely matches the programmer's conceptual model of the program.
<jdl> abi, Prism?
<abi> Prism is, like, a specification & compiler which attempts to ease programming by allowing the programmer to express programs in a form that closely matches the programmer's conceptual model of the program
<jdl> Hmmm... good enough.
<jdl> G'night all!
ωνω SignOff jdl: #TUNES (Leaving)
01:10am
ωνω Yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #tunes
<Yery> hi abi
02:40am
ωνω SignOff Yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
ωνω Yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #tunes
<Yery> hi abi
<abi> hola, Yery
04:20am
ωνω SignOff Yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
ωνω Yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #tunes
ωνω SignOff Yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
ωνω Yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #tunes
ωνω SignOff Yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
ωνω s720 [s720@saksedyr.ii.uib.no] has joined #tunes
ωνω s720 is now known as TMF
ωνω Tril [dem@bespin.ml.org] has joined #TUNES
<Tril> hey TMF..get my patch? :)
<Tril> do you want a bespin account?
>>> Tril [dem@bespin.ml.org] requested PING 917631184 722692 from #TUNES
<Tril> ok, it says you did
09:40am
ωνω iStormy [stormy@198.79.79.125] has joined #tunes
<iStormy> hi
<iStormy> abi, tunes
<abi> it has been said that tunes is in my head or tunes is a useful nevertheless expedient system. or at http://tunes.org/
09:50am
<iStormy> abi, earth
<TMF> tril, yes, and I've patched my version
π Tril/#TUNES wonders who Stormy is
π iStormy/#tunes is a random figment of your imagination.
>>> iStormy [stormy@198.79.79.125] requested PING 917632363 255391 from #tunes
<Tril> Stormy, you know about abi. Do you know about tunes?
<iStormy> yep, i've been reading the tunes page off and on for years
<iStormy> or 2 anyway
<TMF> mabe it's Tormy :)
<iStormy> i read the abi stuff in the irc logs at the site
<Tril> do you have your own OS project? everyone seems to.
<iStormy> but of course, who doesn't  (c;
<iStormy> the Earth Operating Environment...3 quic paragraphs  are at http://www.futuresouth.com/~stormy/
<iStormy> click the earth oe link in the right frame
<iStormy> tis a new page, i don't have the navigation setup yet for a straight url to the earth page  (c;
<Tril> I am the 2nd visitor!
<Tril> ok, now you have to tell me about your OE, since there's nothing on the page :)
10:00am
<iStormy> it started out as a language project, and then i decided i wanted a whole os to go with the language
<Tril> ahh...backwards of us.  We wanted a whole OS, and decided no language existed good enough to make it in.
<iStormy> i aim to attack os development sideways...do everything different, if folks say i'm nuts, then i'm doing it right
<iStormy> well, not really, but i wanna be different
<iStormy> i'm not very good at different ideas t hough
<iStormy> the buzzwords are distributed, pervasively threaded, micro/exo kernel, orag persisent
<Tril> that's like brix
<iStormy> i've seen brix links, but haven't gotten than far in the alphabet yet (i start at z and go backwards)
<iStormy> i'm at t right now in the big-os-lists
<Tril> well _QZ who is writing brix comes here every day in the evening so you should talk to him about it.
<iStormy> i plan to have no c, no c++, no java, no gnu (i like their stuff, but i don't want another unix clone)
<Tril> he used the same buzzwords that you did
<Tril> and he has some working code, but he won't give it out
<iStormy> i want a fresh start with no old baggage hanging about
<iStormy> anyone that comes around and says, "ah, you're off to a fine start, now lets get bash and gcc ported over and get cracking on  some code" will be chased with a big stick
<iStormy> of course, i know folks will do that anyway...earth tis opensource compliant, i can't make them not port the stuff they want
10:10am
<Tril> no, most os projects I know aren't extremely concerned about gnu software and posix
<iStormy> has tunes made any progress on their lll or hll yet?  last i checked a yeaar or so ago, it was still in the buzzword stage
<Tril> yes, sort of
<Tril> Emmanuel Marty has a working component system which is going to be released soon. He wants us to adapt it to TUNES' purposes.
<Tril> Jim Little has a compiler-like thing underway
<Tril> and TMF here has a metatranslator thing
<Tril> note all of these projects are independent from TUNES, but they are similar.
<Tril> as for HLL, I am doing conceptual work and writing a spec.
<Tril> Brian Rice has a free form language called Arrow which he is trying to explain to us.
<Tril> the tunes web page doesn't accurately represent the state of the project, but we're working on that too.
<iStormy> my web page accurately describes the stage of the earth oe.  (c;
<iStormy> i have 550k lines of idea files, that's it
<iStormy> eer, 550k bytes, not lines
<iStormy> if i had 550,000 lines of ideas, i'd sell them for $1000 a copy to os-projects...
10:20am
<Tril> that's more than I have. But I also have some on paper I didn't type in (and they are mostly obsolete and useless anyhow)
<Tril> if those 550k is in MS Word, I won't be very impressed
<Tril> :)
<iStormy> that'd be 3 lines
<iStormy> it's 4200 lines
<iStormy> 4,221 lines of text wrapped at 85 chars
<iStormy> including blank lines
<iStormy> i have 411 blank lines, which means i have around 400 ideas, cause i separate them with a blank line
<iStormy> dang, i thought i had maybe 50...
<iStormy> aah, hold on...
<TMF> give an example of an idea, then
<TMF> a short on :)
<iStormy> nope, that's correct
<iStormy> 400.
<TMF> bibi ( of to go snowboarding :)
ωνω SignOff TMF: #TUNES (Leaving)
<iStormy> > a command that for a program, prints out EVERY related library file and version, along with all changes made to all config files related, for use in bug reports.
<iStormy> basically ldd + config file reporting
<iStormy> to automate the digging of info that folks never do when they make bug reports
<Tril> that's just one example of what can be done with an integrated system.
<iStormy> the diff info will be easy since i want file versioning
<Tril> what do you have for a model?
10:30am
<iStormy> nothing...all i have are ideas, no technical planning done yet
<Tril> ideas for a model?
<Tril> you mean just ideas about features, basically
<iStormy> yup
<iStormy> i just started reading an os design textbook last week to start learning internals of things
<Tril> I stopped writing those when I realized it has to have every imaginable feature.
<Tril> now when someone asks "does it have such and such feature?" I can just say "Yes."
<iStormy> cheater  dc:
<iStormy> the correct answer is, "it does now"
<Tril> then they get upset because I'm being impractical.
<Tril> but that is the point. current systems are annoying because they are too practical to make, and not useful.
<Tril> the more impractical, the better
<Tril> if it's harder to program, it is probably better to use
<iStormy> i'd have long ago had some running code but i'm hampered by rsi injuries so i can't type much  )c:  my oe will probably be a pipe-dream for 5 or so years till voice recognition is good enough and cheap enough to be useful to me
10:40am
<iStormy> my language was initially started because i wanted a language with easier typing
<iStormy> () are quite difficult for me to type
<iStormy> so i have no paranthesis
<iStormy> parenthesis
<iStormy> no end-of-line silliness like ; in c
<iStormy> comments are from ada, just a simple --
ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes
<iStormy> hi fare
<Fare> gakuk!
<Tril> hmm
<Tril> Fare: Why do you have an e-mail backlog, when you have a laptop?
<Fare> Tril!
<Fare> Tril: because e-mail takes time to understand?
<Fare> because I have an article to submit next monday, and dunno what to put in it?
<Tril> tcn suggested you re-submit the same article from the last conference
π iStormy/#tunes collected 71 email during the time he was spouting nonsense to tril.
<Tril> I think he was joking, but why not?
<Fare> wouldn't quite do.
<Fare> Plus, conferences just hate it when they don't have the exclusivity on an article
<Fare> all the more since the rackety publisher demands that you abandon all copyrights on an article they publish
<Tril> huh? Does the conference publish the article? If so, you have to take it down off the web, right?
<Tril> Hasn't anyone had a web conference yet? The web should make the old kind obsolete.
10:50am
<Tril> all the conferences seem to be about exactly the same things, but there is little communication between the authors
π iStormy/#tunes cackles.
<Tril> there are way too many conferences to attend, but they are redundant so that is OK. But why don't they have one giant web conference so everyone can avoid duplicate work?
<iStormy> just had a great feature idea while readaing all the complaints on the wmaker mailing list about people not reading instructions before complaining about bugs
<Tril> maybe different academic fields have different terminology, which makes them incomprehensible to each other?
<Tril> what instrutions are those
<iStormy> the bugreport program should refuse to work if the readme/install files have never been accessed
<iStormy> yesyes, i know, we here in the os channel would never dream of a packaging system so lame that it required folks to read instructions to install something.  (c;
<Tril> my opinion is the system should be so easy to understand (source in it) that there are no bug reports, everyone just fixes it themself
<Tril> which would lead to less bugs in the first place
π iStormy/#tunes pictures his grandmother fixing the source to a progam that won't work right.
<Fare> the ll99 conference is an exception in that it doesn't require that you abandon copyrights, but requires a free software license from you instead!
<Fare> conferences come from the pre-internet age
<Fare> publishers have a well-established racket, with exclusivity contracts with the major conference organizations (ACM, IFIP, etc)
<Tril> iStormy: That's the idea! 
<Tril> Fare: so the question remains why hasn't their racket been weakened yet, and why are you buying into it?
π iStormy/#tunes remembers that just last week he had to type out step by step instructions outlining every step of how his grandmother needs to set the tv & vcr in order to use her webtv.
<iStormy> 8 steps i think it was
<Fare> Tril: I am NOT buying into it
<Fare> Tril: IF my paper gets accepted, I will REFUSE to sign their copyright assignment act
<Fare> (or I will sign a similar-looking paper that only grants them rights from the GPL)
11:00am
<Tril> ok, good.
<Fare> redirection to http://206.63.100.13/missing.html sucks
<Fare> Why not use /missing.html, with an Alias /missing.html /path/to/missing.html ??
<Tril> Alias is no different from a symlink, then
<Fare> no
<Tril> That alias would only have effect within the virtual host, which means I'd have to make symlinks anyway (have multiple missing.htmls)
<Fare> no, put the Alias outside of the virtual host thingie
<Fare> in srm.conf
<Fare> sweety looks like it is up again!
<Tril> ok, I did that
<Tril> do you wnat your homepage on there, too?
<Fare> uh?
<Fare> where?
<Tril> There are a lot of requests for ~fare/Assembly-HOWTO
<Fare> oh, btw, lotsa people still point to /doc/Review/
<Fare> maybe we should do something about it
<Tril> you should put it there?
<Tril> I did that already
<Fare> put what where?
<Tril> put Assembly-HOWTO in ~fare/html!
<Fare> redirect ~fare/Assembly-HOWTO to metalab.unc.edu/LDP/something
<Tril> Redirects are in effect for /doc, /tunes, /~tunes, /~fare/TUNES, /~fare/tunes, and /~fare/Tunes, on all virtual hosts. So an address like http://hyrule.ml.org/doc/doc/~fare/TUNES/~tunes/~tunes/tunes/doc/doc/  will redirect 20 times and end up at www.tunes.org.
<Tril> just since yesterday.
11:10am
<Fare> <Fare> Plus, conferences just hate it when they don't have the exclusivity on
<Fare>        an article
<Fare> <Fare> all the more since the rackety publisher demands that you abandon all
<Fare>        copyrights on an article they publish
<Fare> <Tril> huh? Does the conference publish the article? If so, you have to take
ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Excess Flood)
ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes
<Tril> Signoff Fare: #Tunes Excess Food
<Tril> you got too fat
<Fare> :( :( :(
<Tril> was that an accident?
<Fare> fscking touchpad!
<Tril> or were you trying to paste something :)
<Fare> did you get any of the crap I pasted?
<Tril> about 3 lines
<Tril> (5, since word wrapping doesn't work right)
<Fare> hum. I *really* hate touchpads!
<Tril> what about Assembly-HOWTO.html/.sgml?
<Tril> those are requested less often
<Tril> isn't rideau@ens.fr gone?
11:20am
<Fare> yes it is
<Tril> well, the Assembly-HOWTO I just redirected to at MetaLab says that is your address.
<Fare> maybe I should update the official HOWTO
<Tril> do you mention Corewars as a good ASM learning tool in your HOWTO?
π iStormy/#tunes always wanted to play corewars.
<Fare> Tril: no. If you have a good pointer to it, I might add it.
<Fare> I'm not actively maintaining the HOWTO, you know!
ωνω Beholder [beholder@ppp-088.m2-2.sub.ican.net] has joined #tunes
<Beholder> Hey, lots of people here :)
<Tril> B!!  I edited your membe projects page..
<iStormy> hi beholder
ωνω iStormy [stormy@198.79.79.125] has left #tunes []
<Tril> Fare: I'll have that corewars link for you in a sec
ωνω iStormy [stormy@198.79.79.125] has joined #tunes
<iStormy> oops
<Beholder> Tril: CRAP!!! I just uploaded my own changes to it!! Awww damn... 
<iStormy> i used my ls abbreviation of l instead of my who abbreviation of w  (c:
<Tril> Beholder: I named mine mp.html.. you probably didn't overwrite that!
<Beholder> Hey iStormy how are you today :)
<Tril> Fare: Just use www.koth.org...it has links to more corewars pages.
<Beholder> Tril: <phew> Good :)  I just got some e-mails with corrections, and updated, NP then.
<Tril> well, I made significant changes, added lots of <P> (for lynx friendliness) and lots of comments , and URLs. I wanted to add handles, too, but didn't yet.
<Beholder> Ok, so maybe I'll just port the new information to yours then
11:30am
<Tril> i want to talk about the nav bar.
π iStormy/#tunes fires off a buildworld.
<Tril> hey, I'm going to install freebsd tomorrow
<Tril> and netbsd, openbsd, debian and redhat if possible :)
<iStormy> i liked it better than linux once i figured it out
<Tril> does it support parallel port zip drives?
<Fare> hum. Shouldn't we be maintaining a list of who joined the project when, so as to establish veto priorities, as per the Charter?
<iStormy> dunno, i don't have one
<Fare> Or else, we'd have to modify the charter...
<Tril> Jecel has veto priority over me :)
<Fare> it depends what we consider "officially joining the project"
<Fare> the charter doesn't say such things.
<Tril> I think the members project are NOT officially joining.  _QZ didn't join.
<Tril> There should be a separate list for official members.
<Tril> Beholder: are you following this?
<Tril> Stormy, well I'll find out soon.
ωνω iStormy is now known as eStormy
<Beholder> Yep
<Tril> what do you think
<Beholder> Sorry I was AFK for a sec
ωνω Yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #tunes
<Yery> hello
<Beholder> This all comes back to how serious people are about TUNES.  I think anyone who helps TUNES in any way should have member status. 
<Tril> hey Yery
<eStormy> hi yery
>>> Beholder [beholder@ppp-088.m2-2.sub.ican.net] requested PING 12979487 from #Tunes
<Fare> Beholder: whatever the criterion, if we want veto to be effective, then we need an "official" list.
<Tril> ok so if everyone involvd (including _QZ, who hangs out in the channel) then they all get tunes.or email accounts and can veto according to the charter.
11:40am
<Tril> let's say they at least have to want to adapt their project to work with tunes
<Tril> if they have a project,  otherwise, obviously they are contributing to tunes itself.
<Beholder> I Agree with Tril
π Beholder/#tunes is AFK again...
<Tril> Beholder: OK, the official members list is /members.html, plus Core.  But then we need to ask _QZ, jiml, alonzo, TMF, and Jecel whether they want to be official members.
11:50am
<Tril> all the people i mentioned have their own projects, so the question is whether they are working with tunes on it. We would be glad to work with any of them.
<Tril> core already said he is very willing to work with us.
12:00pm
π Tril/#TUNES is away: (rebooting) [BX-MsgLog Off]
π Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 0 hrs 11 min 20 secs
>>> eStormy [stormy@198.79.79.125] requested VERSION  from #tunes
<Tril> stupid 2.2.1 ttyS1 didnt work with setserial
<Tril> B you back?
π Beholder/#tunes is back
<Beholder> Whats up?
<abi> nuthin'....
<Tril> well, see what I said while you were away.
<Tril> it is still on my screen.
12:30pm
<Beholder> Ok so, does that mean the projects list is still valid?
<Tril> if they all want to be official members, we don't need a "member projects" page separate from the members list :)
<Tril> what d oyo mean
<Beholder> So we should ask them if they wish to be offical members?
<Tril> yup
<Tril> which is just to ask, whether they are willing to work with the tunes project in the development of their own projects.
<Beholder> Hmm... so the members page will include all project information also?
<Tril> If they do, they will be members
<Tril> I think the members page should be re-done. Take out the fields that I asked for which no one used, replace by a general "self comments" section, which will work for what we have in members.html and the projects you have in member projects. We can let any membe change their blurb.
<Beholder> Sounds good.  Are you gonna handle the scripts and stuff to allow the members to change their blurb (or is it done manually)
<Tril> then, there will be one page. leave everyone on that one page. when we ask them, if they say no we can take the entry off the page (and put it in Review instead). If they say yes, they can have tunes.org emails
<Tril> it will be done by cvs to begin with.
<Beholder> Do you know of any good e-mail programs (win95) that handle multiple users, easily?
<Tril> well, you're editing the bineng page now, let's just leave it in bineng and call it the new members page.
<Tril> Pegasus mail does.
<Beholder> Hate Pegasus... crashes continually.  Terrible product.
<Beholder> I used to for years :)
<Tril> it worked fine for me.  does eudora have multiple users configurations?
<Tril> use PC-PINE (Pine for dos :)
12:40pm
<Tril> why are you using win95 anyway? :)
<Tril> btw, I'm sure outlook does it..
<Beholder> I think you can set Eudora Light up in multiple config dirs, gives you multiple users, just not in a single folder
<Beholder> Actually I also have multiconfig on my Communicator 
<Tril> and...
<Beholder> It should do the trick
<Tril> ok then
<Tril> (separate cache directories, ick :)
<Beholder> Yes... very very very large cache directories... 
<Beholder> Plus I'm running WinGate on my system... (there's another 100 megs worth of cache)
<Tril> ahh! you're using wingate! did you buy that
<Beholder> Nope, you can wingate between two machines without a licence..
<Tril> two? I thought it was for gatewaying the Internet to your LAN
<Beholder> Yes I have my machine set up to connect to the internet, and my mom's machine can share the access. 
<Beholder> It runs like a cache-proxy, not a gateway (as I understand the terms)
<Tril> anyways..would you like to combine the two membe pages now?
<Tril> i will helpp
<Beholder> Where is the current page?
<Tril> http://tunes.org/members.html
<Tril> actually I have a better idea
<Tril> let's make an lsm-like database for members. one file per person.
<Tril> then a program can generate the page
<Beholder> Sounds even easier :)
<Beholder> Do you know how to make Linux work as a proxy, with demand dialing PPP (kinda like WinGate)
<Tril> it's called ipmasq, and I haven't done it, but I know people who use it on their 24hr DSL lines
<Tril> http://www.highstreetmanor.org
<Tril> ( I dont know if they have anything about it on their page)
12:50pm
<Beholder> I'll find some stuff eventually.  Just can't be in my Linux box very often because they loose access upstairs
<Tril> demand dialing ppp is pretty easy, (I think. Just not on my configuration.)
<Tril> ahh ,so if you had wingate equivalent on your linux, you could use it all the time.
<Beholder> Nope, I still need some programs on my Win95 machine, (Games, TV Tuner, Burner, etc.)  But I could be in Linux more often.
π Beholder/#tunes is AFK... yet again...
<eStormy> hah hah, this is great...nothing in /usr/games will run cause the load average is too high...
<Beholder> Sorry tril... gotta go... I'm up to my ears in work :(  I'll try to get back on later
ωνω Beholder [beholder@ppp-088.m2-2.sub.ican.net] has left #tunes []
<Tril> stormy, what? the gmaes detect the load and refuse to run?
<Tril> is this your own freebsd machine?
<eStormy> yep
<Tril> does moving the file to another directory work?
<eStormy> i'm sure it's probably a game wrapper, not actually based on the directory
<eStormy> i'm building the world with -j 6, so the load average is 4-7 right now
<eStormy>  2:59PM  up 6 days, 20:18, 0 users, load averages: 5.66, 5.38, 5.74
01:00pm
<Tril> -j 6 I suppose spawns 6 copies of gcc?
<eStormy> yup
<eStormy> i have an smp machine
<Tril> 6 CPUs eh?
<Tril> not.
<eStormy> only 2 cpus, but a lot of the slower parts of the compilation is shell script stuff that is faster in parallel
<Tril> you will be popular around here, people will want you to test their OSes for them on your smp machine.
<eStormy> so -j 6 is faster than -j 2
<Tril> have you tried 2.2.x? I heard SMP was supposed to be blazingly faster than 2.1.x
<Tril> err, than 2.0.x
<eStormy> i got lucky...got a dual p133 with 64m ram, adaptec 2940, dual 1g scsi drives, 4x scsi cdrom, dying 15", 33.6k modem, 2m vid card, for $425
<eStormy> i don't run linux
<Tril> you should try it, to compare performance.
<Tril> (I would)
<eStormy> i had 2.0.35 for a few weeks in dec
<eStormy> debian
<Tril> right. I mean try the 2.2 kernel series, because it's supposed to have much faster SMP support.
<Tril> I want to know if it is true :)
<eStormy> i still have debian on the other drive, once some slink packages with the 2.2.0 support come out, i'll try it
<eStormy> those 1g scsi drives are slooow, i'm running freebsd on an old 1.6g ide, which blows them away, even striped
<Tril> have you tried beos?
<eStormy> no, i don't have a credit card they like
<eStormy> and my cdrom quit  )c:
<Tril> well, if you don't need them, I know someone who wants an old 1g scsi-1 drive
<eStormy> oh, i use them alright  (c:
<eStormy> until 6 months ago, i had only a 244m hard drive, i'm reveling in my 3.6g of space  (c:
<Tril> Filesystem         1024-blocks  Used Available Capacity Mounted on
<Tril> /dev/hda1             499116  245274   228064     52%   /
<Tril> /dev/hda3             114624     467   107580      0%   /tmp
<Tril> /dev/hda5            1703249  104881  1510346      6%   /usr/local
<Tril> /dev/hda6            10026318  114065  9912253      1%   /serv
<Tril> /dev/hda7            3958475 1737850  2220625     44%   /users
<Tril> last week got a maxtor 17.2 eide for the server :)
<eStormy> Filesystem  1K-blocks     Used    Avail Capacity  Mounted on
<eStormy> /dev/wd0s1a     39647    20405    16071    56%    /
<eStormy> /dev/wd0s1e   1274127   473708   698489    40%    /usr
<eStormy> /dev/wd0s1f    190543    74083   101217    42%    /home
<eStormy> /dev/wd0s1g     31743     2512    26692     9%    /var
<eStormy> /dev/da0s2e    888220   339237   477926    42%    /scratch
01:10pm
<eStormy> i'm working on a new partition scheme at this very moment
<eStormy> 8 partitions
<eStormy> over 2 drives
<eStormy> 9 
<eStormy> err, 10
<eStormy> 12 over 3 drives if you include swap  (c:
<Tril> why
<eStormy> cause i'm a perfectionist
<eStormy> trying to get it setup so that i can reinstall the base os without touching anything else and without having to fiddle with symlinks
ωνω SignOff Yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
ωνω Yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #tunes
ωνω SignOff Yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
ωνω Yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #tunes
01:20pm
<Yery> 
<eStormy> yes, we noticed
<Yery> me?  
<eStormy> yep
01:40pm
<Yery> what are you doing for tunes?
<eStormy> populating the channel  (c:
<Yery> eStormy: me too :)
<eStormy> my official capacity is stealing ideas for my own project
<eStormy> but mostly i was tired of listening to the guys in #freebsd be crude (on efnet)
<Yery> eStormy: and what is your project? OS?
<eStormy> the Earth Operating Environment
<eStormy> or os
ωνω SignOff Yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
01:50pm
ωνω SignOff eStormy: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eStormy[198.79.79.125])
ωνω Yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #Tunes
ωνω eStormy [stormy@198.79.79.125] has joined #tunes
ωνω SignOff eStormy: #TUNES (telefiling taxes)
!king.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT lackey.openprojects.net 8004 from lilo
!king.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT lackey.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
ωνω hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] has joined #tunes
ωνω SignOff Yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
<Tril> hey hcf
<Tril> check out http://tunes.org/~bineng/members/, I just did it
<Tril> gotta go
ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (school)
ωνω Yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #Tunes
03:20pm
ωνω iStormy [stormy@rain.futuresouth.com] has joined #tunes
<iStormy> relo
03:40pm
<Yery> iStormy: hi
<abi> hoy, Yery
<Yery> abi :)
04:00pm
ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes
<Yery> _QZ
π _QZ/#tunes is GONE ( buying my 4th 300A )
<_QZ> hola
<abi> hoy, _QZ
<iStormy> hi qz
<hcf> _QZ: http://imagiware.com/RxHTML.cgi
<iStormy> my web page got a perfect score
<iStormy> i thought it'd bomb
04:10pm
<iStormy> oh
<iStormy> the silly thing, never mind
<iStormy> it just looked at the frame loader  (c;
04:20pm
ωνω SignOff iStormy: #TUNES (iStormy has no reason)
π _QZ/#tunes is BACK [away time = 1h:31m:49s]
<_QZ> hcf: and what am i suppose to do with that url?
<_QZ> hcf: i sure as shit aint paying for it
<hcf> paying for it?
<_QZ> its not free
<hcf> hmm
<hcf> well the part i tried was
<_QZ> which part?
<hcf> the single page analysis
<_QZ> ah
<_QZ> ok it found 2 problems with my about page
<_QZ> but it doesnt tell me whta tthey are
<_QZ> thats helpful
<_QZ> it does it it isnt a table or form problem
<hcf> u picked the wrong options
<hcf> choose long form details
<_QZ> i did
<_QZ> ah u have to click on those links at the bottom :)
<_QZ> ah i didnt close the <body> tag or the <h1> tag
<Yery> _QZ: you didn't close the <body> and <html>
<Yery> _QZ: and that image was aligned to the width of the last form
<_QZ> Yery: i never do
<Yery> _QZ: 98% of 30%
<_QZ> huh
<Yery> _QZ: you have to write <img> in <p> or <div>
<Yery> _QZ: <p> in ypur case
<Yery> your
<_QZ> what???
05:50pm
<Yery> _QZ: i've misspeled ypor :)
<_QZ> ya ya what are u talking about
<_QZ> <Yery> _QZ: and that image was aligned to the width of the last form
<Yery> 4:51AM :(
<Yery> _QZ: ah.  remember the image rule that was too short?
<_QZ> ya
<hcf> _QZ: r u using <br clear=left> on pages for older and/or textual browsers?
<_QZ> no
<Yery> _QZ: netscape thought it was a part of the form.  that image.
<_QZ> but its outside of the form
<_QZ> anyway it doesnt matter im removing the form
<Yery> _QZ: it is outside everything.  that's invalid
<_QZ> how
<_QZ> its inside the body and h1 tags
<Yery> _QZ: images must be in <p> or something like that
ωνω Kor [kor@pm-ppp68.triton.net] has joined #tunes
<Kor> koo
<Yery> _QZ: body not counts
<Yery> Kor: koo
<_QZ> i have never had any problems with <img>
<_QZ> and i never use <p>
<Yery> _QZ: how do you mark paragraphs?
<_QZ> kewl my boy at micron can get me a deal on anice box
<_QZ> $56k
<_QZ> 90gig ultra2 wide scsi
<_QZ> what is LVD scsi?
<_QZ> 4gig ram
<_QZ> 70gig tape backup
06:00pm
ωνω SignOff Kor: #TUNES (ircII EPIC4pre2.001-NR7 -- Accept no limitations)
ωνω isTormy [stormy@rain.futuresouth.com] has joined #Tunes
π isTormy/#Tunes decides to abandon frames on his web site.
ωνω isTormy is now known as iStormy
<iStormy> hmph, have a typo in my irc scrit
<hcf> whats a scrit?
<hcf> :P
<iStormy> a secret
<iStormy> netscape is up to 118m of ram...
<iStormy> buuuuuuuuggy
<iStormy> ram cache is only set to 3m  (c;
07:00pm
ωνω SignOff Yery: #TUNES (Leaving)
ωνω eihrul [lee@216.24.140.62] has joined #tunes
ωνω The_Fallen [The_Fallen@mdm28.tig1.Corrigin.comswest.net.au] has joined #TUNES
<The_Fallen> Hi all
<iStormy> cool, i have bochs running
<iStormy> hopefully it will be helpful in putzing with asm bootcode
<_QZ> bochs is nice
<_QZ> i use it to debug my os
<iStormy> i'm booting a linu xfloppy right now in it
<iStormy> redhat install disk
08:10pm
<iStormy> takes a while to decompress the kernel on my p133
<_QZ> haha
<iStormy> 0.89 bogomips!
<_QZ> hahahaha
<_QZ> is bochs threaded?
<iStormy> dunno
<iStormy> only one thread running if it is
<iStormy> sucking 98.83% of cpu #1
<iStormy> cool...i'll use this a lot to learn asm
π iStormy/#Tunes writes out a fbsd floppy image.
<iStormy> it seems to be stuck on serial probing
<iStormy> or something...last line was tty00
<iStormy> no, there it goes
<iStormy> found my ps2 mouse it thinks
<_QZ> this sunday im gonna drill my celerons
<_QZ> and then ill have a dual 463mhz p2 system
<_QZ> and if bochs is threaded then it will screm
<_QZ> scream
<_QZ> 926mhz of thread power
<iStormy> good luck
<iStormy> fbsd won't boot
<iStormy> HLT(): CPL!=0
<iStormy> says that for a while and exits
<iStormy> says it 6000 times
π iStormy/#Tunes needs to write a boot sector hello woorld now and then figure out how to get it on the image.
08:20pm
π iStormy/#Tunes wonders what 0.89 bogomips equates to...bout a 286?  less?
ωνω SignOff The_Fallen: #TUNES (The_Fallen)
ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
ωνω Tril [dem@bespin.ml.org] has joined #TUNES
ωνω SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving)
<Tril> anyone here?
ωνω eihrul [lee@216.24.140.62] has joined #tunes
<iStormy> yep
09:20pm
<iStormy> bah, me gimp broke
<iStormy> so much for web logo...
π iStormy/#Tunes works on html instead.
09:30pm
ωνω SignOff iStormy: #TUNES (iStormy has no reason)
ωνω SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving)
ωνω eihrul [lee@216.24.140.62] has joined #tunes
ωνω SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[216.24.140.62])
ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason)
ωνω SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0130
IRC log ended Sat Jan 30 00:00:00 1999