IRC log started Tue Jan  5 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0105
ωνω SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
-lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Please rewelcome mercedes.lackey.openprojects.net as our alternate hub in Dallas, Texas
-^lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all.  Please bear with me while I correct a bit of hubbing.  Thanks for your patience!
ωνω AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-121-157.bellatlantic.net] has joined #tunes
ωνω Fare [rideaufr@137.194.160.71] has joined #Tunes
π AlonzoTG/#tunes greets "Salutations Fare!" :-)
π AlonzoTG/#tunes is studying Forth. :)
<Fare> good
<AlonzoTG> I bought the Forth programmer's handbook. 
<AlonzoTG> I also figured out why I was having so much trouble writitng the prototype. 
<Fare> why?
09:50am
<AlonzoTG> It has to do with this: 
<AlonzoTG> I am very good at top-down design. 
<AlonzoTG> That is I see a problem. 
<AlonzoTG> I analyse it into the steps needed. 
<AlonzoTG> Then I write sub-routines for those steps. 
<AlonzoTG> An OS is basically a *system* of subroutines. Developing it is inehrantly a Bottom Up approach, That is why I am having difficulty writing it. :|
<AlonzoTG> It has 2 requirements: 1. The subroutines must be general, that is suitable to the widest variety of uses. 2. The subroutines must cooperate....
<AlonzoTG> This is why I am having trouble coding it. 
<Fare> I disagree.
<Fare> An OS does not exist.
<Fare> OR rather, it exists as a set of agreed common knowledge, whatever that knowledge be
<AlonzoTG> DOS exists...
<Fare> yes, DOS is an OS, and a bad one, for it brings little useful knowledge, with lots of limitations
<AlonzoTG> That's why I'm trying to fix it. 
<Fare> don't fix it. Drop it.
<AlonzoTG> I know. 
<AlonzoTG> But I really really like it's user interface! :))))
<AlonzoTG> How do you define "common knowlege"
<AlonzoTG> Between what entitys does this agreement take place?
<Fare> things that users/developers can trust to be present on every machine
<Fare> or rather, a distribution of probability of availability of feeatures depending on machines
<AlonzoTG> okay. 
10:00am
<Fare> read my WhyNewOS article!
<AlonzoTG> I think I did, then promptly forgot it. :|
<AlonzoTG> Anyway, 
<AlonzoTG> I intend to finish this prototype. 
<AlonzoTG> That intails getting used to bottom-up design...
<AlonzoTG> or applying top-down design.
10:10am
ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Connection reset by pear)
ωνω hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] has joined #tunes
ωνω binEng [bineng@dialup118-1-42.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes
<binEng> furbys??
<hcf> hoy binEng
<binEng> hi
<abi> hi, binEng
<binEng> abi: you here?
<abi> i don't know, bineng
<binEng> heh
<binEng> abi: you here?
<abi> bineng: wish i knew
<hcf> binEng
<binEng> ya
<hcf> for irc meetings, we need a time/duration, ppl to come, chosen topics, a host, a summary writer, and what?
<binEng> why a host?
<hcf> ok, s/host//
<hcf> perhaps the wrong term
<hcf> a director of dicussion?
<binEng> ah, you mean some kind of leader
<binEng> yes
<binEng> well, I think that's all that's needed.
<binEng> look at http://members.xoom.com/unios/tunes.html and the sitemap link from there.
11:40am
<AlonzoTG> om
<hcf> binEng: the embedded sitemap?
<binEng> hey, AlonzoTG! I didn't see ya :)
π hcf/#tunes sees no sitemap link
<binEng> at the top of the page...
<binEng> [ main - sitemap - ...
<hcf> heh
<hcf> i use rabbit, it filtered the [...] thing out
<binEng> strange, the colors I use look completely different on my two computers
<binEng> What's rabbit? A browser?
<hcf> abi: rabbit?
<abi> it has been said that rabbit is at http://www.nada.kth.se/projects/prup98/web_proxy/
<hcf> abi: rabbit is also a http proxy w/ banner etc filtering
<abi> okay, hcf.
<binEng> so, I have to change that, right? :)
<hcf> u dont /have to/
<binEng> how about < ... >
<binEng> or two small images?
<hcf> il read the rabbit info, see whats not filtered
<binEng> it says you can use "noproxy." to avoid filtering
<hcf> binEng: did u just change something?
<hcf> oic
<hcf> works
<binEng> not since I told you to have a look
<hcf> "See a longer introduction here"
<hcf> personally, i hate "click here" anchors
<binEng> oh
<binEng> How about just "Longer introduction"?
11:50am
<hcf> k
<binEng> What do you think about the page header on the sitemap page? It's the one I plan to have on every page, except the main page
<hcf> thats the one i used as an example ;)
<hcf> meaning, tril, beho, etc will likely hav things to add/change concerning it
<binEng> well yes... But the style of it...
<binEng> We really should have one of those IRC meetings soon, so we can deal efficiently with the site.
<hcf> binEng: call an ad hoc meeting
<hcf> just for web stuff
<binEng> how do you mean?
<hcf> send msgs out, like 'if possible/interested in tunes website decussion/decisions be on #tunes at ##:## GMT'
<binEng> ic
<AlonzoTG> om
<hcf> binEng: u wanna do that?
<binEng> maybe... I'd rather see someone else do it :)
<hcf> its likely noone else will wanna either
<AlonzoTG> I can code top-down stuff like simple programs but I can't code bottom-up stuff like operating systems. :(
<hcf> but, something like this would be a nice segue into future scheduled meetings
<binEng> a problem is that I don't know when ppl is availible
<hcf> binEng: doesnt matter
<binEng> not?
<hcf> if they can make it, and r willing, they will
12:00pm
<binEng> and you?
<hcf> il be here, of course
<binEng> k... I'll see what I can do. And when.
<hcf> the msg, sent out i suppose via icq and email, needs to reply, no answer why any person couldnt make it, nothing
<hcf> s/needs to/needs no/
<binEng> no reply at all?
<hcf> either ppl show up or they dont
<binEng> k
<hcf> some decisions NEED to be made
<binEng> agreed
<hcf> some ppl SHOULD be here: u, tril, beho at least
<hcf> its 8pm GMT rite?
12:10pm
<hcf> binEng?
<binEng> hmm
<binEng> 20:11 GMT right now
<binEng> yes, 8pm I guess
<hcf> what time wer u thinking of doing this thing?
ωνω SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[client-151-200-121-157.bellatlantic.net])
<binEng> I dunno... maybe 23:00 GMT
<binEng> friday?
<hcf> friday? i thot sooner
<binEng> my school begins on Thursday :( I can't be up late that day or on Wednesday.
<hcf> k, shoot for friday 23:00 GMT
ωνω AlonzoTG [Alonzo@client-151-200-121-157.bellatlantic.net] has joined #tunes
<binEng> k
<hcf> damn, that ~leaves tcn out
<hcf> part of his toafm is never friday
<binEng> oh
<binEng> the alternative is Saturday
<binEng> What's David Jeske's nick?
<hcf> has he been on here?
<binEng> I dunno, that's why I ask
<hcf> do u know the host part of his nick!user@host ?
12:20pm
<binEng> nothing, no
<hcf> i just did '[nef@bespin /pub/tunes/irc]$ grep -i jesk * | less'
<hcf> came up w/ only the jesk u just dais
<hcf> said
<hcf> <-- dyslexic
<binEng> I'm sending a mail about the site to the mailing list... Friday, right?
<hcf> yeah, friday
<hcf> maybe this one time, tcn can make it
<hcf> ultima coming would be good too
ωνω binEng has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: TUNES project <www2.tunes.org>. Site layout meeting on Friday, 23:00 GMT -binEng
<binEng> If there's nothing more to discuss, I'll leave for tonight.
<hcf> thats about it for now
<binEng> bye
<hcf> cya
ωνω SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Leaving)
12:30pm
ωνω Tril [dem@hh154ws03.hh154lab.wwu.edu] has joined #TUNES
<Tril> hcf: you here?
>>> Tril [dem@hh154ws03.hh154lab.wwu.edu] requested PING 90992460 from #tunes
12:40pm
<AlonzoTG> [Tril PING reply]: 1 second
<AlonzoTG> -
<Tril> better
<AlonzoTG> really a universal linker would match the enginuity of the eifel tower! :P
<Tril> but what would it do?
<Tril> I don't understand your idea at all
<AlonzoTG> It would allow people to create arbitrary file formats. 
<AlonzoTG> And link programs using them. 
<Tril> That's kind of what ANDF is.  Have you looked at it?
<AlonzoTG> I've never heard of ANDF
<Tril> abi, ANDF is http://slashdot.org/features/98/10/20/116240_F.shtml
<AlonzoTG> retrieving...
12:50pm
ωνω SoloWhiz [yep@stocksg.clark.net] has joined #TUNES
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<Tril> abi, you here?
<abi> hmmm... you here is <answer> last time I checked, Tril
<Tril> abi, you here?
<abi> last time I checked, Tril
<AlonzoTG> awesome!
<AlonzoTG> but not quite wut I need.
<Tril> why?
<Tril> Alonzo: TUNES is designed top down
<Tril> brb
ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Read error to Tril[hh154ws03.hh154lab.wwu.edu]: EOF from client)
ωνω Tril [dem@hh154ws10.hh154lab.wwu.edu] has joined #TUNES
01:00pm
π hcf/#tunes is back
<Tril> how do I calculate what time 2300GMT is in my time zone and daylight mode? Is there a program for it?
<hcf> yeah, date will do it, afaik
<hcf> man date
<hcf> or just go on the thing that EST is gmt-5
<Tril> but we're in daylight, so it screws it one hour in one direction or other
<Tril> or does daylight savings happen in every time zone incl. GMT?
<Tril> looks like 3PM.  I have a class at 4 that day so I will only be there for an hour.
<Tril> date -u
<hcf> Tue Jan  5 22:14:18 UTC 1999
<Tril> abi, date?
<abi> date is Tue Jan  5 13:16:11 1999
<Tril> she needs to use date -u
<Tril> abi, date UTC?
<abi> bugger all, i dunno, tril
<hcf> yeah yeah i know
<Tril> I was thinking about the projects list.. and I realized that is exactly what .plan (and .projects) are for.
<hcf> i knew that
<hcf> just hadnt decided to put in mine yet
<hcf> s/to/what to/
ωνω tril_ [dem@hh154ws10.hh154lab.wwu.edu] has joined #TUNES
<hcf> thers a sig and finger faq w/ suggested formats/styles
ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Killed (NickServ (This nick is reserved by another user)))
01:20pm
ωνω tril_ is now known as Tril
<Tril> If everyone puts their toafm in a decided format in .plan, a script can scan all the plans and put the toafms in a centralized location (on abi, or on a webpage)
<Tril> same with current tunes work
<hcf> but...
<hcf> they need hosts w/ fingerd running for serving up the .plan
<Tril> I meant everyone puts their plan on their bespin account. We have fingerd running.
<Tril> A script wouldn't even need to run finger for bespin users
<hcf> rnt ther ppl u hang in #tunes who dont hav bespin accounts?
<hcf> s/u/who/
<Tril> smkl doesn't
<Tril> alonzo, binEng, lar1
<Tril> If they are going to be involved in tunes they will get accounts
<Tril> if they are not involved in tunes who cares if they come to a meeting?
π hcf/#tunes is away 05/01/99 16:29:32 EDT : brb
01:30pm
<Tril> anyone with no account can report their info thru abi or something
<Tril> i'll be back in 20min
ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES ([=V97=] Leaving)
01:40pm
ωνω tcn [tcn@cci-209150250128.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes
<tcn> Hey, I got my pmode loader working!
>>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250128.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 915572953 from #tunes
<tcn> sup?
<abi> awwwwwwwww yeahhh...
02:00pm
<AlonzoTG> kule
<AlonzoTG> I need help with a REAl mode prototype OS. :P
<tcn> hmmm.. whassa matter?
<tcn> Isn't an OS top-down and bottom-up at the same time?
π hcf/#tunes is back
<tcn> hey hcf
<hcf> hoy tcn
<tcn> hcf: What toafm did I give you?
<hcf> wed-thu 1100-1900 ~GMT, sat-sun 0500-1900 ~GMT, never Mon/Tues/Fri
<tcn> oop
<tcn> oops. wrong GMT conversion :)
<tcn> I'm at GMT-0500 not +0500
<hcf> tcn: same as me
<hcf> abi: hcf's toafm?
<abi> hmmm... my toafm is 24/7
<hcf> abi: hcf's toafm?
<abi> hcf, your toafm is 24/7
02:10pm
<hcf> tcn: can u reconvert ur toafm and giv it to abi
<tcn> abi: tcn's toafm is Wed-Thu 2100-0300 GMT, Sat-Sun 1500-0500
<tcn> abi, tcn's toafm?
<abi> i think my toafm is Wed-Thu 2100-0300 GMT, Sat-Sun 1500-0500
<hcf> tcn: say 'abi: my toafm?' instead
<tcn> abi: my toafm?
<abi> tcn, your toafm is Wed-Thu 2100-0300 GMT, Sat-Sun 1500-0500
<tcn> When I give abi my toafm, can I say "abi: my toafm is ..."?
<hcf> tcn: yes
<tcn> abi my toafm is Wed-Thu 2100-0300 GMT, Fri 2300-0500 GMT, Sat-Sun 1500-0500 GMT
<abi> ...but tcn's toafm is Wed-Thu 2100-0300 GMT, Sat-Sun 1500-0500...
ωνω Tril [dem@bespin.ml.org] has joined #TUNES
<hcf> use 'abi: no, ....'
<tcn> abi, no, my toafm is Wed-Thu 2100-0300 GMT, Fri 2300-0500 GMT, Sat-Sun 1500-0500 GMT
<abi> okay, tcn.
<tcn> howdy Tril
<Tril> ya
<tcn> I'm on a roll.. I got my protected mode loader running!
<Tril> can i specify my toafm using negatives? "anytime except..."
<hcf> Tril: whatever format suits u
<Tril> oh, right, it's just for people to read
<hcf> the more grok-ability the better
<Tril> hcf, did you add code to abi to support toafm, or does that work for anything?  
<Tril> abi, my box is bespin.ml.org
<hcf> werks for anything
02:20pm
<Tril> abi, scan for toafm
<Tril> it only found hcf's. I thouht she knew tcn's
<Tril> oh scan is 1 match
<Tril> abi, forget part of his toafm
<abi> Tril: I forgot part of his toafm
<hcf> scan iz 1 \is hit and/or 1 \are hit
<tcn> Tril: Aren't we on Standard Time? DST is summer..
<Tril> well Hcf is on EDT and I'm on PST. one of us gotta be wrong. (me, I think)
<tcn> hcf is wrong :)
<Tril> daylight savings is during winter because there is less daylight
<Tril> it needs to be saved
<Tril> I think
<Tril> abi, daylight savings time
<tcn> I think daylight needs to be moved earlier in summer, for some reason
<hcf> Tril: ur in PDT
<Tril> Tue Jan  5 14:23:24 PST 1999
<Tril> well bespin is set wrong
<tcn> Who needs DST and Timezones.. pain in the ass!
<Tril> I agree everyone should use GMT.  let's start using it among ourselves.
<tcn> yeah, they use it alot in radio communications
<tcn> Like in shortwave radio, all broadcast times are given in GMT
<tcn> Tril: I like that idea of putting stuff in .plan...
ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes
<tcn> hey QZ
<tcn> I got pmode working.
02:30pm
<_QZ> u sure?
<tcn> mmmm hmmm
<tcn> Gotta go.. later all
ωνω SignOff tcn: #TUNES (Leaving)
<Tril> hcf: apparently my timezone changed from -7 PDT to -8 PST this fall
02:40pm
>>> Tril [dem@bespin.ml.org] requested TIME  from #tunes
π Tril/#TUNES just invited Patrick Premont and Alex Bostrom to join here (from icq)
<hcf> Tril: ppl from any certain project(s)?
02:50pm
<Tril> they have contributed to the tunes mlist in the past
<Tril> interested in tunes
<Tril> patrick is busy so he can't be a member (running a game programming company)
<_QZ> ok guys, as soon as a buy a bunch of paintball shit in a minute here then im gonna start doing some serious coding on brix and im off for the next 2 days
<_QZ> i just know i can have a kickass working version in that time
<Tril> logging off to do coding on brix?  good
<_QZ> uhh no :)
<_QZ> off as in vacation
<_QZ> from work
<Tril> so you will be both here and working on brix.. I see
ωνω Fare [rideaufr@137.194.160.71] has joined #Tunes
<abi> Welcome, Fare!
03:00pm
<Fare> yoho
<Tril> Fare: will you be able to make it to the meeting as per the topic?
<Fare> just passing by
<Tril> Fare: also, /msg abi my toafm is <times you are available for irc meetings>
<Fare> that's saturday 00:00 to me.
<Fare> I might well be there
<Tril> Fare: also, look at binEng's sample layout at http://members.xoom.com/unios/tunes.html
<Fare> sweety is back, at last!
03:10pm
<Fare> it has huge spelling errors on top of the page!
<Fare> also, I don't care about the layout, if it isn't inserted by a metaprogram
<Fare> miscellaneous
<Fare> and the logo is no more the same!
<Tril> well, you spelled enthusiasm wrong too
<Tril> the logo is going to become real sometime..
<Tril> how would we metaprogram the layout from what we have there?
<Tril> the nav bar will be in a separate file, if that's what you mean
<Tril> since the nav bar is on every page
<Fare> I veto any logo before there is working code
<Fare> s/before/until/
<_QZ> i wonder how long it would take the paintball field to catch on if i used the same case of paintballs i bought from them for $125 and just kept refilling it with the same kinda balls bought for $73 on the net
<Fare> from the CVS source, replace cat by something else, as a preprocessor for pages...
<Tril> beholder thinks a logo is inspiring, to encourage people to stay in the project and write coed
<_QZ> a logo is a symbol of hte project
<Tril> chicken and egg
<_QZ> without a symbol u wont have a good project
<Fare> I still veto any logo before we get code. I'd be ashamed of that.
<Fare> I want no Freedows syndrom
<Tril> can we write "No logo until working code" in the logo space instead of "imagine a spiffy logo here"?
<Fare> if you prefer
<Fare> though I liked the previous non-logo
<Tril> I think it was destructive to morale
<Fare> why so?
03:20pm
<Tril> leaving a fake logo is like saying 'our project sucks'
<Tril> it makes you think nothing is ever going to get done
<Fare> ok, so remove any logo whatsoever from the pages
<hcf> Tril: using ssi, cgi, etc iz likely not compatible w/ ur method of tarballing the site
<Tril> hcf: ssi and cgi for what?
<Fare> hcf: uh?
<hcf> cgi for review/glossary
<_QZ> <oh4u2nv> Who is the most popular man in a nudist colony
<_QZ> <oh4u2nv> The one who can carry 2 large coffees and a dozen donuts.
<_QZ> <oh4u2nv> Who is the most popular woman in a nudist colony
<_QZ> <oh4u2nv> The one who can eat the last two donuts
<hcf> ssi for nothing yet, but it mite be usefull sometime
<Fare> QZ: I don't get it
<_QZ> Fare: uhh
<Fare> hcf: cgi is fine, as long as we can reconstitue everything from sources...
<_QZ> Fare: sexual joke
<Tril> hcf: sure it is, the tar is from the 'make'ed cvs tree. make can run whatever preprocessing you want including reading the same db CGIs do
<hcf> Tril: ok, i wasnt aware
<Fare> Tril: which tar?
<Tril> i meant tunes-snap.tar.bz2.  oh you're right it's created from the sources. 
<Tril> well, we don't have any CGIs that need to go in the tar yet anyway
<Tril> cross bridge when come.to it
<Fare> We might make two tar's: tunes-snap-src.tar.bz2, and tunes-snap-made.tar.bz2
<Tril> Fare: Have you backed up any tunes stuff?
<Fare> or tunes-snap.tar.bz2 and tunes-html.tar.bz2
<Fare> backed up?
<Fare> you mean, on tapes?
<Fare> not yet.
<Tril> yeah, or zips, or floppies, or CD, whatever
<Tril> CD-RW is getting very cheap
<Fare> I've just be given back a my computer, and am going to reinstall it correctly, including a tunes mirror
<Fare> I've got backups of what I did, until bespin was setup as a server
<Tril> i logged onto sweety today, and it looks like ftp/ is not getting mirrored (no irc/)
<Tril> maybe other stuff isn't mirrored too?
<Fare> I'll DAT my disk regularly, once it's done
03:30pm
<Fare> Tril: maybe it was only up today, and mirroring didn't happen yet?
<Tril> well, that's possible, that's the first time I accessed it since November 27
<Fare> I've just launched the mirror script ... less +F ~tunes/tmp/junk.log
<Fare> problem: /pub/tunes has wrong ownership on sweety...
<_QZ> Tril: thanks for the duplicate emails :)
<Tril> hmm, maybe we don't need 2 different os-lists?
<Fare> os-lists?
<Tril> os-help/os-ideas
<Tril> neither have any traffic
<Tril> should gateway to alt.os.development/alt.os.assembly instead?
<hcf> Tril: they havnt been very advertised yet
<Tril> since those ng's are not well propagated
<Tril> mlists would be nice
<_QZ> hmm i dont have alt.os.development
<Fare> gotta go.
<Fare> bye!
ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Back to the Tunes OS project -- /whowas Fare)
03:40pm
ωνω binEng [bineng@dialup122-3-11.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes
<Tril> hello!
<binEng> hullo
<Tril> looks like Pieter is back
<binEng> yep he is
<Tril> has he said anything about TUNES?
<binEng> umm, nothing more than you have been able to read yourself, I think
<Tril> user friendly cannot be added later. if the underlying OS is complex, then the user interface can't make it easy to understand without removing power.
<Tril> the underlying model must be easy to understand from the beginning. then ease of use comes naturally later.
<binEng> slow it down...
<binEng> you don't design an OS for user friendliness, except than using clear principles.
04:00pm
<Tril> you do if the core "system calls" are going to be accessed by "joe user"
<Tril> system API = UI
<binEng> User friendliness can, if the system is designed right, be implemented easily in a UI. But of course, the key is to have good principles from the beginning.
<binEng> Clear and logic design. That's all that's needed, IMO
<Tril> well, that's what I meant. Logical design can't be added on later
<binEng> FYI: it wasn't me that typed that "misc..." word, I just used copy-and-paste :)
<binEng> Then I agree completely with you.
<Tril> who misspelled it, then? they should be informed..
<Tril> hcf?
<abi> hmmm... hcf is mailto:nef@bespin.ml.org or bespin.ml.org/~nef/
π hcf/#tunes did
<hcf> i was giving binEng an example
<hcf> didnt expect it to be used
π Tril/#TUNES slaps binEng around with a trout
<Tril> it's YOUR fault!!  :P
<binEng> hcf: I have to admit that I can't really keep you and that other guy apart... you have such similar nicks
<binEng> *MY* fault??
<Tril> who, tcn?
<binEng> yeah :)
<binEng> IIRC, those two used to hang around in #OSDev... long time ago.
<binEng> along with Alonzo
<hcf> binEng: i did, i dont recall tcn being ther
<hcf> _QZ was ther
<binEng> don't remember him
<hcf> (sometimes)
<binEng> when was that... last spring/summer?
<hcf> i dont recall the seasons
<binEng> it doesn't matter
<hcf> thers that [a??] nick also
<hcf> apc?
<binEng> w8 a moment... didn't I go under a different nick back in those days...?
<hcf> iv used nef, bnf, hcf
<Tril> what are all the IRC networks?  I need a list of all the small ones
<binEng> I think I was still andman4 back then. Recognize it?
<Tril> oh yeah there's fef.net
<hcf> binEng: nope
<_QZ> Tril: im sure there are thousands of them
<hcf> Tril: thers a list @ http://www.liszt.com/chat/
04:10pm
<hcf> and http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/networks/
<Tril> thx!
<hcf> abi: tril's toafm?
<abi> tril's toafm is anytime except TTh 20:00-22:00 and TThSa 0:00-1:00
<hcf> Tril: whats tth, tthsa mean?
<Tril> DOW
<Tril> be glad I didn't use MTWRF like my school does (R=thuRs.)
<Tril> TTh=Tuesday and thursday,  MWF=mon/wed/fri
<Tril> Sa=Sat Su=Sun
<Tril> if more people can't figure it out, then we can change it
<hcf> Tril: those times in gmt or what?
<binEng> abi: binEng's toafm is Su-Th 17:00-20:00 and F,Sa 17:00-01:00 (GMT)
<binEng> can abi learn from me?
<Tril> yes, that's our standard
<Tril> abi, bineng's toafm?
<abi> bineng's toafm is Su-Th 17:00-20:00 and F,Sa 17:00-01:00 (GMT)
<binEng> nice
<binEng> abi: Good work!
ωνω lar1 [lar1@1Cust125.tnt22.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes
<lar1> Hi
<binEng> hi
<Tril> from IRCNet: ωνω Topic for #Linux: anonymous> CAN ANY ONE HELP ME TO INSTALL LINUX?! I
<Tril>           CAN'T FIND THE SETUP.EXE
<lar1> ROLFL!
<binEng> :))
<binEng> clueless indeed
<lar1> s/ROLFL/ROFL
<Tril> le floor
<binEng> French?
<Tril> :)  j/k.. don't know french
04:20pm
<binEng> Then we can just assume it's French :)
<lar1> What is the "w" flag in IRC?
<hcf> wallops
<lar1> Whats that mean?
<hcf> lar1: u know the unix `wall` cmd?
<lar1> No...
<hcf> man wall ;)
<lar1> K ;)
<Tril> well I didn't find a #OSDev anywhere...
<Tril> tried a few nets :)
<binEng> not on this network... EFNet
<binEng> ic
<binEng> well, you're right, that channel seems to have died while I were absent.
<Tril> hmm they odnt have WarezNet and PornNet.. I guess that's what dalnet means anyway
<lar1> If I type wall HIHI will everyone see HIHI on there screen?
<Tril> lar1: if you're root
<binEng> those that are not root on a UNIX system... are they leaves???
<binEng> ;)
<binEng> or leafs
<lar1> So then why is the +w by my nick there?  I'm not root!
<Tril> no we call 'em lusers
<Tril> lar1: the 'wall' reference was an analogy.  wall in unix writes anyone logged on to the unix system.  wall in irc writes anyone connected to irc
<Tril> they aren't the same, just similar
<lar1> Ahhh
<Tril> and +w on your user means you want to read wall'ed messages. you can do -w if you don't want to see em
<lar1> So /wall hihi says hihi to _everyone_ on IRC?
<lar1> Ahhh
<Tril> if you have IRC Oper access
<Tril> you will see msgs from lilo and his buddies in #openprojects
<lar1> All I have is a little +iw by my name... ;)
<Tril> i means you dont showup in /who for someone unless they are in a channel with you
<Tril> (invisible)
<hcf> Tril: ul probly hate this but, hows this:
<hcf> abi: testril's toafm?
<abi> i haven't a clue, hcf
<hcf> abi: testtril's toafm?
<abi> testtril's toafm is toafm is 24/7 except (tue 20:00-22:00, 00:00-01:00; thu 20:00-22:00, 00:00-01:00; sat 00:00-01:00) GMT
04:30pm
<Tril> really hard to read
<lar1> What is testtril's toafm?
<abi> well, testtril's toafm is toafm is 24/7 except (tue 20:00-22:00, 00:00-01:00; thu 20:00-22:00, 00:00-01:00; sat 00:00-01:00) GMT
<binEng> Tril, I've changed the spelling of miscellaneous now
π Tril/#TUNES throws the fish back into the pond
π binEng/#tunes is clueless about what the above may mean
<Tril> oh, earlier I slapped you with a fish
<Tril> now I won't have to anymore :)
<binEng> * Tril slaps binEng around with a trout
<binEng> ;)
<binEng> Anyway. You said you would come earlier to that meeting... I'll be here.
<lar1> Is it possible to land in Xlander?
<Tril> if you have a 386, yep
<Tril> actually if there is no FPU it will be difficult to move at all.  a 486 is best
<lar1> I keep crashing!  and I am landing on flat ground!
<Tril> you need to be moving slowly
<lar1> Hmmm, that is hard :)
<binEng> Well, it's the OS... hey, I got an idea! How about if we wrote a new OS??
<Tril> use OSKit to write XlanderOS
<binEng> yeah :)
<binEng> with cheats ;)
<lar1> Wait... is there some kind of meeting going on tonight??
<binEng> no... not as far as I know
<Tril> no, that's on Friday, and it will be 1 hour and 40 minutes ago :)
04:40pm
<hcf> lar1: read the /topic
π _QZ/#tunes is GONE ( Auto-Away after 30 mins )
<lar1> Ahh, I am so used to seeing the topic as the title :)
<hcf> Tril: if u abbreviate 01:00 to 1:00, why not just abbrev'd it to 1?
<hcf> s/'d//
<binEng> I'm outta here. cya.
<Tril> bineng wait a sec
<binEng> otoh
<Tril> Beholder's about to show
<binEng> yeah, I just noticed :)
<Tril> abi, tell hcf my toafm
<Tril> abi, tell hcf about my toafm
<binEng> It's my destiny to be stuck here... I never get out to RL
<lar1> What is toafm??~
<binEng> abi: toafm?
<abi> i heard toafm was times of availability for meetings or yafla
<lar1> Ahhhh
<lar1> yafla?
<abi> yafla is yet another five letter acronym
<lar1> Who came up with yafla and toafm??
<hcf> <--
<Tril> abi, the acronym finder is at http://www.mtnds.com/af/
<lar1> Hmmm, hcf, how did you come with with those?? 
<hcf> lar1: i cant easily explain it
<hcf> lets see
<lar1>  Hmmm
<hcf> for yafla, i took 'tla' which is a commonly known acronym for 'three letter acronym'
<Tril> yes, TLA is the secret society that rules the world
<hcf> made 'fla' then made 'fla' into a 'fla'
<hcf> thus, yafla is yafla
<lar1> Uh huh...
<Tril> try running that one through an AI..
<lar1> BRB
04:50pm
ωνω lar1 is now known as lar_away
<Tril> binEng: guess he's not coming
<binEng> nah
<binEng> ok, bye
<Tril> later!
ωνω SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Leaving)
05:00pm
π lar_away/#tunes is away: (Auto-Away after 10 mins) [BX-MsgLog On]
<hcf> for the next irc meeting we have a time and topic
<hcf> what else do we need?
<Tril> someone said we need a host?
<Tril> what do they do?
<hcf> keep ppl on topic
<hcf> handle incoming ppl
<Tril> well do you think we need a host
<hcf> yeah
<hcf> do u not?
<Tril> doesn't matter. it's ok
<Tril> u also said a summary writer and a duration
<hcf> and ur opinion of such was what?
05:10pm
<Tril> i think any important discussion in irc should have a summary, even non scheduled onnes
ωνω lar_away is now known as lar1
<Tril> so ppl don't have to read thru the logs
<lar1> I voulnteer to be the host@
π lar1/#tunes is back from the dead. Gone 0 hrs 9 min 1 secs
<Tril> lar1: I added you to the members page, it will be there tomorrow
<hcf> but writing summaries for stuff in which ppl go on and off topic is annowing
<lar1> Tril:  Cool, thanks.
<hcf> s/now/noy/
<Tril> ok let's let lar1 be the host
<lar1> Yah, I can earn my keep in the tunes project ;)
<hcf> lar1 can write all the summaries too
<lar1> DOH!
<Tril> lar1 you don't have to do that
<lar1> Ok.
<Tril> unless you want to
<lar1> So like I tell incoming people in a msg what we are duscussing, can keep people on topic?
<abi> lar1: u know u wanna
<lar1> I'll help with some summaries... just not write them all.
<Tril> when tunes is advanced abi should be able to write summaries
<lar1> That would be cool
<hcf> Tril: for now, lets talk practically
<hcf> and presently
<Tril> ok right now I won't write any summaries because I'm reading unios mail :)
<hcf> what of a duration?
<Tril> I said I will be there for an hour because then I have a class
<Tril> the meeting can go on after that without me
<hcf> u cant irc while in class?
<Tril> no this class isnt in a lab
<lar1> How are we doing this meeting... like people just come in and discuss the topic?
<Tril> i think bineng needs to decide because he called it
<Tril> it's about the web page right?  did beholder ever say he would come?
<hcf> beho hasnt been here yet today
<hcf> and bine called it today
<lar1> Does someone have the job of "web page maintainer?"
05:20pm
<Tril> hcf: what decisions NEED to be made
<Tril> since u did say that
<Tril> lar1: no, that's done by committee thru cvs
<lar1> cvs?
<abi> cvs is great if there's a server you can always connect to
<hcf> Tril: anything thats keeping us from progressing
<Tril> abi, no, cvs is Concurrent Version System at http://www.cyclic.com
<abi> okay, Tril.
<Tril> hcf: perhaps a lack of definition of the term 'progress'...
<Tril> bringing the page "up to date" I think would be progress.
<hcf> whats "up to date"?
<Tril> well, I hate it how fare has a bunch of subprojects on the page that are "mismaintained by Fare". In other words don't even exist. But we keep them around beacuse of the info contained in the docs..
<Tril> but the info itself is old
<Tril> it is good, but needs revising and synthesizing etc.
<hcf> as i/we said yesterday, use or throw out the old
<Tril> I still think we need all new pages. Starting from scratch with a new hierarchy.
<Tril> but we wuold have to go through all the old pages and keep all the information!  A daunting task.
<Tril> obviously, I haven't got time to do it all by myself.
<lar1> I'll help
<Tril> thanks, lar1!
<hcf> lar1++ for eagerness
<lar1> hehe
<lar1> Just let me know what to do...
<hcf> hmm, perhaps i should be doing more #tunes invites on efnet (like #asm), since lar1 came from ther
<Tril> ack, why would asm coders care about tunes? we won't be needing asm for a LONG time...
05:30pm
<lar1> Yah, that would be a good idea.  I would have never knowen about Tunes, if I didn't sak about FAT ;)
<hcf> Tril: its that osdev ppl come in #asm asking for pmode help and such
<Tril> yeah, why send them here, pmode has nothing to do with tunes
<Tril> ppl are doing Code for OSes but we don't need code we need design
<Tril> we should get theory and language people from universities instead
<hcf> Tril: so u dont want ppl like lar1?
<lar1> I am an asm coder!
<Tril> not just an asm coder.
<hcf> an osdev'er
<lar1> Well, yah... I suppose....
<Tril> send em over :)
<_QZ> hcf : unless efnet#asm has changed since i left then they wouldnt care about tunes
<hcf> _QZ: im not talking about the regulars
<hcf> since #osdev doesnt exist on efnet, osdev ppl goto the proglang channels
<hcf> Tril: wher do the theory ppl hang on irc?
<Tril> #math maybe
<hcf> #cs?
<Tril> too  many channels
<lar1> Tril:  What do you mean exactly "pmode has nothing to do with tunes"?
05:40pm
<Tril> well tunes is platform independent and pmode is intel specific.  we're designing the high level part first then the low level will come later (low level is much easier)
<lar1> Hmm... when does tcn usually  show up?
<hcf> Tril: usenet-wise tunes should be posted about in comp.os.research (and comp.theory?)
<Tril> lar1: later I guess
<hcf> alt.os.development iz more like #asm,#c
<Tril> I look for tunes-related stuff also on comp.os.misc,comp.object.logic,comp.parallel,comp.lang.visual
<lar1> How do people manage to get in here at times like 9:50 and 11:40??
<Tril> what, instead of sleep? easy. don't sleep.
<hcf> lar1: dedication to tunes?
<lar1> No, AM
<lar1> Are most people in the tunes project also involved in work/school...
<Tril> AM? ahh.. I don't wake up that early
<lar1> s/are/aren't
<Tril> lar1: what tz are you in
<lar1> PST
<Tril> they live in europe :)  many hours   ahead
<hcf> Tril: perhaps tunes should posted about (by members) for discussion (not like advertising vaporware) but advertising the mlists would be good
05:50pm
<lar1> There is a thin line between what you are saying and vaporware.
<Tril> hcf: wait until we get these improved pages up, otherwise there will be chaos!
<Tril> newbise who know nothing of tunes will slow everon down dont you think?
<hcf> Tril: yeah, thats what i mean about the lack of a proper site impeding progress
<Tril> yeah, we don't need more discussion
<Tril> not in its current form. write short papers then discuss those, maybe
<lar1> What is a .bz2 file?
<Tril> abi, bzip2?
<abi> i haven't a clue, tril
<Tril> abi, bzip2 is http://www.muraroa.demon.co.uk/
<hcf> also, tunes isnt the only uhm thing (whats the term?), thers tril's free os project hosting, _QZ's osdev materials, and the review project
<hcf> by what iv seen, the review project pages as they've been (past+currently) hav been quite popular
<lar1> Yah, speaking of that, Tril:  I might take need some of that web space sometime.
<Tril> lar1: ok
<Tril> lar1: bzip2 is a good compression program
<lar1> Ah
<Tril> hcf: the term being what, hosted?
<hcf> Tril: no, like entities
<Tril> qz doesnt seem to be doing anything about the osdev material.. should we recruit helpers for that?
<hcf> is it a tunes thing?
<Tril> no
<hcf> shouldnt we focus on tunes things?
<lar1> I'd say, "I'll help!" but I have no idea what I'd be doing ;)
<hcf> lar1: thats ok, settle down ;)
<lar1> Ooo, not a tunes thing... hmmm better not
π lar1/#tunes finds a diffrent seat and stops eating cookies... I am settled...
<lar1> lar1?
<abi> you are mailto:lar1@bigfoot.com
π hcf/#tunes has to go in a minute
<lar1> abi: lar1 is cheese
<abi> ...but lar1 is mailto:lar1@bigfoot.com...
<lar1> Opps!
<hcf> lar1: use 'abi: lar1 is also cheese'
<Tril> or "abi: no, lar1 is cheese"
<hcf> yeah, what Tril said
ωνω mode/#TUNES [+o Tril] by ChanServ
ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (bbl)
ωνω mode/#TUNES [+o lar1] by Tril
<Tril> did you say ops?
<lar1> No
<Tril> oh. sorry
ωνω mode/#TUNES [+o abi] by Tril
<lar1> but I'll take it :)
<Tril> j/k
06:00pm
<lar1> What are you joking about?  Did you really mean to give me ops?
<Tril> I knew you didn't say ops
<lar1> So you ment so give it to me?
<lar1> s/so/to
<Tril> i gave you ops as a joke
<Tril> since you meant to say oops
<lar1> Okay... :)
<Tril> but opps is pronounced like ops
<lar1> Out of all the features LINUX has... no IRC spell checker?
<Tril> hmm, I don't think anyone has thought of that before. You could implement it :)
<lar1> I have no idea how to program in Linux...
<lar1> Hey!  Abi won't devide by zero!!!
<AlonzoTG> AUM
<Tril> wb atg
<Tril> you never answered my question, why is andf not sufficient for your needs?
<Tril> did you read pieter's mail suggesting using existing linkers? maybe you should explain why they won't work or why you won't use them anyway
<lar1> Abi has some pretty weird logic... what language is she in?
<abi> no idea, lar1
06:10pm
<Tril> abi, you are in perl
<abi> ...but abi is the little girl borg with a big brain...
<Tril> abi, you are also in perl
<abi> okay, Tril.
<Tril> abi?
<abi> Tril?
<Tril> abi abi?
<abi> i am the little girl borg with a big brain or in perl
<lar1> Hehe
<AlonzoTG> andf is a platform independant binary format, I will probably use it for the final version of my OS> 
<AlonzoTG> But my prototype needs something completely different...
<lar1> How complacted is abi's source?
<Tril> complicated? or compacted?
<lar1> complicated...
π AlonzoTG/#tunes is BORG too
<Tril> <spell checker pauses for user input>
<AlonzoTG> my borg page is at atc.peon.net/~cyborg/
<AlonzoTG> :)
<Tril> abi, alonzotg's borg page?
<abi> alonzotg's borg page is probably at atc.peon.net/~cyborg/
<lar1> Damnit!!  I am going to write that spell checker in perl someday!
<Tril> lar1: I dunno ask hcf sometime, I haven't really looked
<lar1> Do you have the code?
<Tril> abi, infobot source?
<abi> tril: i don't know
<Tril> abi, infobot
<abi> infobot is at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~infobot
<Tril> Yeah or you can download from that page
<lar1> Ok, I'll get it from the page, thanks
<Tril> as a tunes member you can have an account on my machine
<lar1> Ooooo, cool!  SOLD!
<Tril> msg me the login and initial pass you want (both 8 letters or less) and I'll set you up
<lar1> k
<lar1> Wait.. what is the linux passgen comand again?
<Tril> i'm not sure what you mean.
<lar1> The thing that returns a randomly generated password...
<Tril> hm, i didn't know there was a program to do that
<Tril> that comes with every linux system
<lar1> Well, at least RH comes with it...
<Tril> fare wrote one himself so i guess he didnt know either
<Tril> i ahven't tried rh yet
<lar1> You have Slackware?
<Tril> yes
<lar1> Is it true that you have to fix everyting in slack?
<Tril> i dont know it works for me
<_QZ> slacware is crap
06:20pm
<Tril> i'll find that out when i get around to trying another distro, qz
<Tril> rsn
<Tril> ok lar1, your account is ready, telnet/ftp/imap/pop3 away to bespin.ml.org/bespin.tunes.org/www2.tunes.org
<lar1> Cool!  Thanks!
<lar1> So I can be e-mailed to: lar1@tunes.org?
06:30pm
<Tril> uh, yeah if you want to
<Tril> i'll go add that now
<Tril> done
<lar1> Its good to be a tunes member!
<Tril> i think so
<lar1> :)
ωνω Tril has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: TUNES project <www2.tunes.org>. Site layout meeting on Friday, 23:00 GMT -binEng.    <lar1> Its good to be a tunes member!
<lar1> Thats the first time I've been in a topic...
<Tril> with your enthusiasm you will go far!
<lar1> You like that, eh?
<abi> oompa loompa species 34783 assimilated earth years 1988 willy wonkas chocolate factory
<lar1> ftp is bespin.ml.org? and imap/pop3 is www2.tunes.org?
<Tril> no they are all the same
<lar1> Ahhh
<lar1> What kind of connection do you have?
<Tril> that is getting to be a faq, but it's a non-dedicated t1
<lar1> Your home computer just happens to have a t1?
06:40pm
<lar1> Hmmm what happens if I type 'startX' while telnetted to my account?
<Tril> i'm not at home I'm at the isp where bespin is,... i dont know what happens if you type startx, try it. you probably can't open a display because DISPLAY environment is not set.
<lar1> Ahh
<Tril> if you have X running on your system you can add bespin.ml.org to xhosts or xauth, and on bespin type DISPLAY=myhost:0.0, then run any x app on bespin and have it show on your screen 
<Tril> if you want to run apps on my screen too bad , it's cluttered enough as it is :)
<lar1> How did you set your colors?
<Tril> colors in what
<lar1> bash
<Tril> ls --color=auto
<Tril> (it's in bash's aliases that way)
<Tril> you need gnu color ls , it comes as the default /bin/ls in slackware
<lar1> So how do I make my computer do colors every time I ls?
<Tril> i dont know, you mean red hat doesn't?
<lar1> No...
<Tril> I am not the one to ask about red hat, not having used it yet
<Tril> go to #redhat :)
<lar1> OK
<Tril> time to go
<Tril> back later
<lar1> Later
ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (cya)
ωνω NetSplit: norton.openprojects.net split from tolkien.openprojects.net [06:48pm]
ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [norton.openprojects.net]
<lar1> Well, I better go to... later all
ωνω SignOff lar1: #TUNES (lar1 has no reason)
ωνω Netjoined: norton.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net
ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #TUNES
06:50pm
<AlonzoTG> AUM
07:00pm
ωνω hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] has joined #tunes
<AlonzoTG> I'm gonna quit to play some SC2k...
<AlonzoTG> party. 
ωνω SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :))
ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
07:20pm
ωνω Tril [dem@xws036.xtrn03.wwu.edu] has joined #tunes
<Tril> redesign all software language os etc
<Tril> a system which can evolve
<Tril> without getting bloated
<Tril> wrong channel
<Tril> well, no, they should come here but..
08:20pm
>>> Tril [dem@xws036.xtrn03.wwu.edu] requested PING 915598431 569885 from #tunes
ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (ωνω Total uptime :    0d  2h 11m 56s)
ωνω lar1 [larman@1Cust113.tnt22.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes
ωνω Tril [dem@ppp100.whatcom.pacificrim.net] has joined #tunes
<Tril> hello lar1
<Tril> well Cya then!! :)
ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason)
10:40pm
<lar1> Arg!  I didn't have my sound up!  Sorry Tril!
11:00pm
<_QZ> hehe my orange juice not only has an expiration date but also a time of day]
<lar1> Hehe... uh oh 5 minutes late!  Damnit!
<_QZ> hehe
<_QZ> ya
<lar1> Are you perpetually on IRC?
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> u know anything about chuckless drills?
<lar1> Umm
<lar1> no
<lar1> My dad does... I think... but he is assleep ;)
<_QZ> im not sure if its just brute strength needed or if there is soemthing im not seeing
<_QZ> but i cant get this stupid thing to open so i can put a new bit in
<lar1> Do you have the instruction book?
<_QZ> uhh not on me
<lar1> What are you drilling?
<_QZ> my paintgun
<_QZ> i tried to push the bit in the metal but i guess im not strong enuf
<_QZ> i didnt think stainless steel would be that hard :)
<lar1> Hmmm, ball get jammed?
<_QZ> no i need a tiny hole in the top of it so my sightrail will stay and not slide back and forth
<lar1> Hmmm
11:20pm
<lar1> _QZ:  Do you know how BNC Eathernet works? (electricly)
<_QZ> earthernet? :)
<lar1> U know what I mean...
<_QZ> what u wanna know
<lar1> If I put the connecter up to an ocilliscope, what would I see?
<_QZ> i binary signal
<lar1> So it sends data sierally?
<_QZ> ya
<_QZ> that is why they say 10megaBITS
<lar1> Is it modulated?
<_QZ> bits means it sends serially
<_QZ> ya its modulated on a 10mhz signal
<lar1> So it should be easy to interface with a radio?
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> for wireless ethernet?
<lar1> Ya
<_QZ> ya
<lar1> Can I just put two radios in duplex communtication?
<lar1> Or do I need to ride my own protocol on top of eathernet?
<_QZ> u need full duplex
<lar1> So both radios transmitting all the time and both radios reciving all the time...
<_QZ> yup
<_QZ> when two ethernet cards both begin sending simultaneously then a collision occurs
11:40pm
<_QZ> and both stop and wait a random time
<_QZ> then resend
<lar1> Can I just put the signal into the mic thing on an HT or do I need to demodulate?
<_QZ> what
<lar1> an HT is a handheld radio
<lar1> Handi-talky
<lar1> abi: HT?
<abi> HT is, like, a handheld radio
<_QZ> u need to modulate the 10mhz ethernet signal to the frequency u are transmitting on
<lar1> So I put the 10mhz signal into my microphone inupt on radio?  Or demodulate it first?
<_QZ> are u using fcc channels or is this just for inside yer house?
<lar1> Ham bands to go a few miles down the road... so I need to obey the FCC rules...
<_QZ> the mic is expecting a <20k signal
<_QZ> 20khz
<_QZ> i hardly think the mic interface on the radio will handle a 10mhz signal
<lar1> Hmmm, So I demodulate the 10mhz, remodulate for <20Khz put in mic... recive on other end, demodulate, and remodulate to 10Mhz?
<_QZ> HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHA
<lar1> What?  IT would work!
<_QZ> fuck no
<_QZ> think about it
<lar1> What not?? are the little bits > 20Khz too?
<_QZ> 20khz will hold 20,000 bits per second
<_QZ> ethernet sends at 10,000,000 bits per second
<_QZ> that is 500 times compression
<_QZ> modem makers are at like 16
<_QZ> u havent a clue about digital electronics do u?
<_QZ> u cant fit 10 million ppl into a space made for 20 thousand ppl
<lar1> I know a little....
<_QZ> modems use a compression which is like smashing together 16 ppl into the space of one person
<_QZ> do u understand?
<lar1> Yes
<_QZ> phone lines have a bandwidth of 3k
<_QZ> 3khz
<_QZ> 3000 bits per second
<lar1> I need to transmit at 900Mhz?
11:50pm
<_QZ> a 56k modem is sending 53,000 bits per second
<_QZ> what is the bandwidth of yer channels
<lar1> Uhhh
<_QZ> 900mhz is the road name
<_QZ> but each road has a width
<lar1> I know Frq. and Wavelength...
<lar1> How do modems compress the data soo much?
<_QZ> i think fm stations get 200khz
<_QZ> and part of that is gaurd bands
<_QZ> guard
<_QZ> an empty buffer so channels dont interfer
<_QZ> like that space on freeways that separate the two directions of traffic
<lar1> Ohhhhh, how much am I allowed?
<_QZ> do u know what a clock signal looks like
<lar1> A TTL clock signal, or a sinewave?
<_QZ> ttl
<lar1> Yah, a rounded square wave
<_QZ> _|~|_~|~|_
<_QZ> _|~|
<_QZ> that is one cycle
<lar1> right...
<_QZ> no compression places a bit in that space
<_QZ> oops
<lar1> Wait... a bit can't fit in a cycle, but eathernet is modlated @ 10Mhz and has 10,000,000 B
<lar1> PS
<_QZ> ethernet has 10 million cycles
<_QZ> mhz = millions of cycles
<lar1> Yah, and 1 bit per cycle...
<_QZ> sending bits on edges can double compression
<_QZ> when it goes up u send and when it goes down u send
<_QZ> but modems use analog phone lines
<_QZ> and analog has an amplitude factor
<_QZ> using amplitude modulation they can stuff in more than one bit per edge
<lar1> I was going to use FM...
<_QZ> ya
<_QZ> but i dont think fcc gives out 10mhz channels at 900mhz
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0106
IRC log ended Wed Jan  6 00:00:00 1999